No, that won't do it.

If the Honda head flows more and gives less intake velocity at low and midrange rpm, the effect will typically be less torque (all else being equal). But that same factor that reduces velocity down low serves to improve efficiency higher in the rpm range, which displacement for displacement, creates better power potential.

 

Are you sure? It seems odd to me. From what I've seen if you have two engines with the same displacement but one trades off a little bore size for a longer stroke, the one with the longer stroke will consistently make better torque while the shorter stroke makes better top end.

 

1) honda engine are more efficient at moving air in and out. if you put 11:1 pistions in a 4g63, you won't be making 200 hp like like the honda k20 or the b18c5.

2) why can't honda run the same amount off boost as 4g63 on pump? first, you have to consider that the max whp you can get out off a 2L engine on pump is around 450-500(with an aggressive tune). what makes the hp is the amount of air and fuel mixture in the combustion chamber. since the honda head flow better, you need less psi to put the same amount of air into the chamber where as the 4g63 requires more boost. boost is like a restriction of air flow.

just for reference, my stock b16a with a thick head gasket to lower compression to 9.8:1 made 305 whp on 12 psi.

 

I think it has alot to do with the head. The honda heads flow alot more air.

My b18c5 made 460whp at 15psi t4/67. I couldnt put that same turbo on my evo and still have the same "driveablity." Turbo size has alot to do with the engines tq. If you take a very small turbo and boost the **** out of it, the tq is alot different then the tq of a bigger turbo.

For example, when you lose tq from going to a gt35r.

but its really comparing apples to oranges like everything i guess.

 

Yes they were, just like BlueIX said, the 1G 2.0L non turbos were N/A 4G63s. The base engine was a 1.8L designated the 4G37.

 

Yes, I am sure. I used to believe the same thing, but it has been demonstrated (on a professional level) to be a misconception.

Changing bore and stroke but preserving displacement may affect torque, but not directly due to the change in stroke length. Factors that do affect torque are indirect, such as the long stroke motor probably has a short rod/stroke ratio, which tends to focus efficiency at a lower rpm range, and other comparable indirect factors, et al.

 

Interesting. You learn something everyday on here. I learned that "hooked up" means to paint something a few months back. This info is much more useful though.

 

As for why Hondas make more power, here is an excerpt from a good online document:

The B-series has gone through an evolution of sorts. The final most developed version is the B18C5, the rare powerplant found under the hood of the Integra Type R. This variant of the B-series pumped out an impressive 195 hp in stock naturally aspirated form. This is an amazing feat of more than 100 hp per liter, more than some factory turbocharged and supercharged engines. The B16A, first found under the hood of the del Sol Si was the first production auto engine to produce more than 100 hp per liter.

Honda's superior engineering helps the B engine put out amazing levels of power from small displacements. The B is blessed with excellent combustion chambers of a pentroof design, featuring a shallow included angle. This helps efficiency, as a shallow included angle has a lower surface-to-volume area to insure that more heat energy is used to drive the piston rather than heat the water jacket. The intake and exhaust ports, as well as the valves, are generously sized and contoured correctly for excellent flow right out of the box. Many variants of the B engine also have generous quench zones in the cylinder head to help improve combustion stability by improving fuel-air mixing and turbulent combustion.

Taken from: http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...series_engine/


I hope this sheds some insight as to why things are the way they are. As they say, the 'devil' is in the details.

 

so, its agreeed that a bseris and k seris engine is superior in efficeancy and power output to the 4g63 due to the superior cylinder head design.

 

I would say it's more so that the Hondas are better suited/engineered for high rpm efficiency than the 4G63. It doesn't mean they are better, just better suited out-the-box for a purpose that is more in line with what you are trying to do with your 4G63.

 

Another interesting link:

http://www.full-race.com/articles/gt_turbo_selector.pdf

Pay careful attention to where in the rpm range peak torque occurs. Engines with OEM cams are making impressive torque numbers at and beyond 7k rpm. These engines are designed to deliver strong VE very high in the rev range. It doesn't do anything for low rpm torque, but it works like gangbusters on the top side.

And that is how one makes big power numbers.

 

Although Im sure ted already thoroughly covered this the main reason is how the head/motor flows. The Honda (vtec) heads flow amazingly well which is why they make more top end power on less boost. They are also designed for high revving power as opposed to the evo which is designed for strong torque and decent top end.

You must remember that all boost is is restriction to flow. So to get the same amount of air moving on an engine that doesn't flow as well as another you would need higher boost levels, ceteris paribus.

 

wow, that second dyno graph show 650 whp on stock sleeves. that Jeff Evans got some tuning skillz.

 

also if you're comparing the stock 4g63 turbo and a honda turbo which is more than likely an after market turbo...it's only running 12 psi because it's using a bigger turbo.

 

i think the B16b from the jdm civic TypeR is one of the best engine in the b-series. 1.6L making 180 hp. it was the same engine as the integra TypeR but de-stroked and using longer rods for a perfect rod stroke ratio. that thing can rev to the moon. i think SPOON had a version that revved to 12k rpm. although it lacked in displacement.