There sure is a 4G63 non turbo, and they weren't just in Mitsu's. Check out a 92 Sonata

 

Also my car would be revving to 9800 rmps.. Honda man they are crazy motors!

 

that most defintally is not it
even sleeved hondas never boost 20-23 psi like that of the evo on 91 octane pump
sleeves have nothing to do with it. hondas can make 500-600whp on stock sleeves with no problems.

 

the k seris motors are defintally one of the best 4 cylinder motors ever made. it even surpasses the b seris. but the evo is a better car.

i'm not bashing on evos. i love my evo way more than my integra. its more practialy and has traction and is great is every aspect. but from everything that i seen and read it just seems as if honda motors both the b seris and espically the k seris are superior to the 4g63 in both efficeancy and power production

 

Obviously, neither of us know enough about the Honda motors to come up with clarification on our own. This question is best asked in a Honda forum, where I'm sure one will get a quick answer.

 

cylinder head flow.

where WE dont have a vtec in the evo8, you with the b18c or LS engine, have basically a second set of cams. the VTEC engages and allows MORE airflow at a given psi. it is NOT the psi, but the airflow. why do you think the 35r AT THE SAME BOOST LEVEL OF SAY 24PSI MAKES MORE POWER THAN THE STOCK TURBO AT 24PSI??

you have to take into account EVERYTHING being the same. this comparison as TED pointed out, it cannot be. everything is NOT equal. unless you have two engines built to EXACTING SPECIFICATIONS I.E. compression, piston cc, cylinder head cc, chamber cc, etc. we will continue to debate-"welp, i have this friend that has a friends engine in hiz civic that went on pinks and it waz like putting down 600hp yo...so he needed 20 cars to beat teh trans am...FTL" hahaahaha!!!! had to put that in there.

there are too many variables to compare.

 

It's just hard for me to relate to and understand the whole "better flowing head" concept because frankly, as the OP said, if ANY PART of the Honda engine outflowed that of the 4g63 (w/ the same comp. ratio, mind you) it would be able to efficiently and safely run more boost/timing than the 4g63. More efficient motors can safely be tuned more aggressively, correct? So i think the whole "better flowing [insert anything]" needs to go out the window right now.

I wish this thread had a better title to it so more educated people would participate. 99% of the Evo community doesn't give a **** why a Honda engine makes more power on less boost... But i as i'm sure others, have always wondered the answer to this question; for all cars/motors in general.

OT, but what happens if you max out timing and barely run any boost?

 

Not really.

More volumetrically efficient motors flow more air mass (make more power), all else appearing equal.

 

Nobody has mentioned cam design. Maybe the Honda's have a much wider LSA causing them to effectively have a higher compression ratio and take less boost.

I'm sure Vtech does play a larger role in making power up top as well. Look at what Mivec did for the IX and it only controls timing on one cam never mind lift and duration.

They do seem to consistently make less torque than the 4G63 though. I think that the difference in stroke plays a role in that.

 

not necissarily. it may induce knock and you have your MAX output tune safely. sure you could have MORE boost, but at what engine part expense?? you more than likey will bend a rod from knock or break a piston.




again, it depends on the knock threshhold. if you see too much knock then you have to pull timing or you will surely hurt the engine. you can lower your boost settings in some cases and make MORE power because of the incoming air temp from the turbo. you could bump timing up a little-again-until you see knock.

anyone can claim they made 500whp. sure it was PEAK and not overall. lets see what the averages are of the same set up for the b series and the 4g63 series engines and THEN look at it again. only this time use an EVO 9 engine and head...

 

stroke is relativly the same
evos are 88mm stroke
honda ls motors are 89mm and gsr/typr r's are 87mm

 

'Maxing out' the timing would correctly refer to setting the timing such that peak combustion pressure is generated when the piston is ~15deg ATDC. Advancing the timing further makes no more power (only creates detonation), reducing the timing makes less power.

For any given fuel octane and manifold pressure, that setting which creates peak pressure at the aforementioned point makes best power. If the fuel octane cannot withstand it, the timing must be retarded.

At 30 psi and pump fuel, the timing cannot be set anywhere near that optimum point. It must be delayed so far, that fuel is still burning when the exhaust valve opens, creating excessive heat (and no additional power).

 

90-94 DSM's came with 1.8L SOHC, 2.0L DOHC N/A and 2.0L DOHC Turbo. That was the engine/car I was reffering to, not the 2nd gen DSM's with the 420A.

 

edit:

TED B you beat me to it

"More volumetrically efficient motors flow more air mass (make more power), all else appearing equal."

 

You grasp the concept of a larger turbo making more power with less boost but, you can't see how a better flowing head/engine can out flow another head/engine and have lower manifold pressure at the same amount of flow.

If one head is a restriction of course it is going to have a higher pressure level (boost) than one that flows better given the same amount of volume to flow.