xspsi4

iTrader: (67)

so you are saying the knock sensor won't pick up the knock and pull timing? isint that the point of the knock sensor?

joeymia

iTrader: (6)

your car was probably pulling timming from the first run. You only trapped 115... that should have told you something was wrong.

AutobonEvo

iTrader: (15)

my guess would be timming

xspsi4

iTrader: (67)

Yeah but I was spinning in 1-2nd bad.

ONRAILS

iTrader: (7)

e85 doesn't mix with synthetic oil at all.. will just sit on top of it... scary thought..


Considering a spun bearing shouldn't ring at 6400hz I wouldn't expect the knock sensor to pick it up. Maybe ours does... i dunno.

6-speed

iTrader: (20)

Sorry to hear about your car.


But I cannot believe that nobody replying to your thread has said this (many have gotten close to it mentioning injectors)......

A AFR of 11.5 using E85 is not rich, but is very very lean.



E85 is a blend of 15% gasoline and 85% ethanol.

The optimal AFR for gasoline for example is 14.7, whereas for ethanol it is 9.0.


Back to ethanol....

Gasoline has a very high energy content compared to ethanol meaning that to create combustion you would need that you would need more ethanol (versus gasoline) to create combustion.

Notice how very large injectors are required to run e85?

It requires so much more fuel (e85) to create combustion requiring larger injectors and a larger fuel pump.


Here are some links:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/news6.php

http://buschurforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18389

See the AFR for the Buschur dynorun 7.1


You need a new tuner.

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

6-speed, you are assuming that the wideband would have been reconfigured to calculate AFR based on the new stoich value. If it was untouched, then the "AFR" would have been ok, since the AFR on the wideband display is simply a calculated value from the lambda reading obtained from the O2 sensor.

So I guess the real question is, did the owner or tuner change the AFR multiplier prior to tuning for E-85?

l8r)

PVD04

iTrader: (23)

There is absolutely no possible way that was the cause. An engine does not survive 600 miles at that A/F ratio, it blows up within a few WOT pulls. Just as Ludikraut said, a gasoline wideband will continue to read gasoline A/F ratios while running E85. Tuning E85 for 9.0 on a gasoline wideband would be the same as tuning for 9.0 on gasoline, pig rich.

-Paul

Tarmacisback69

iTrader: (4)

93>e85

6-speed

iTrader: (20)

You are correct.

I jumped the gun on my call (when I saw that he's running a 11.5 AFR with e85 it brought up a red flag) but if I were ever able to convert to run e85 that would be my route.

As I would think most people that tune the car would.



But since the OP stated that he's been tuned for e85 (and he seems to understand what a good AFR value is) you are more likely correct.

6-speed

iTrader: (20)

That's assumming he has been at WOT after his e85 tune, and not that his first WOT pulls were at the track where his engine blew.

But most tuners would do a road tune to verify that all is running alright. Actually, if his AFR's were that off he would have encountered problems on the dyno.


I stand corrected on both counts.....

And I defer to PVD04 since he's running the fuel our country should be using: e85 .

BTW is a 9.0 AFR on e85 rich?


I always thought that it would correlate to 14.7 AFR on gasoline (that's if the wideband has been calibrated to tune e85).

PVD04

iTrader: (23)

9.0 is rich if that's what a gasoline calibrated wideband is reading. Very few widebands are capable of being recalibrated for different fuels, and even when they are very few people do it. Tuning for correct AFR on E85 is pretty much the same as tuning gasoline. You tune for ~11-12 depending on your preference as read from a gasoline calibrated wideband. E85 doesn't lose as much power as gasoline when run rich, so there isn't much harm in running a little rich.

As far as the engine surviving, if you were to tune an engine on race gas at 34 psi with an AFR of 17:1 it wouldn't make it through the tune. That's how I can be sure it wasn't an AFR issue.

One thing I wonder regarding the cause of failure, is if E85 would set off the knock sensor. The stock ECU is calibrated for specific frequencies that are caused during gasoline knock. E85 has very different burn characteristics and may require a recalibration of the knock sensor to work properly. It's possible that there may be some unregistered knock.

-Paul

liberty2000rs

iTrader: (13)

I wonder if the tuner was checking plugs as he/they were building the tune for the car?

If the compression is good across the cylinders, how would fuel be mixed with the oil enough to cause bearing failure?

How long since the motor build? What rods/rod bearings were used, and what tolerances were used? Were the big ends all clearanced by a machine shop?

I have a hard time understanding how you would get enough fuel in the oil to cause contamination when you still have good compression across the board. It seems to me like the culprit is somewhere other than the fuel.

Oil Doc

iTrader: (34)

A spun bearing won't effect power ???????

A spun bearing is a bearing half bypassing the other half and wedging the crank. It most certainly will effect power and many times it almost sounds like a U-Joint Squeak...

Small amounts of Alky won't have an effect on synthetic oil, but your mechanic friend would be right if you were using High concentrations or pure Alky... They Do Not get along with Most Synthetics due to the fact that ALKY pulls massive doses of water.

Doc

robertrinaustin

iTrader: (5)

You've obviously have never run race gas. E85 is $2.50 per gallon race gas, so I'm not sure how 93 is better. People have been blowing engines on 93, so it should come as no suprise that the same thing would happen with e85.