Battle of the Turbos - 50 Trim vs. GT35 - dyno comparision
Another thing to consider about that car is the amount of different turbo kits it has used in the last 2 years, the amazing lack of dyno sheets, and the ceaseless amounts of people that inflate the numbers the car makes.
You say 700hp from an RX6 (which maybe I dont know).
I have also read from Gruppe-S and J-Ondemand that it used an HKS 3037 (3076) and made 500whp, that it uses a Garage HRS header (which would seem to indicate a stock turbo).
The simple fact there is no hard evidence that supports any claims about the RX6 except for the people that have dyno'd it and see it doesnt seem to support anywhere near 500whp regardless of fuel. Its overpriced JDM hype that fails to deliver.
You say 700hp from an RX6 (which maybe I dont know).
I have also read from Gruppe-S and J-Ondemand that it used an HKS 3037 (3076) and made 500whp, that it uses a Garage HRS header (which would seem to indicate a stock turbo).
The simple fact there is no hard evidence that supports any claims about the RX6 except for the people that have dyno'd it and see it doesnt seem to support anywhere near 500whp regardless of fuel. Its overpriced JDM hype that fails to deliver.
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Gentlemen
I want to try and educate some of you about the reality of making a "test"
The customer is on pump gas on a low reading dyno in 95 degree air temps (its July) - the idea here is not to break a dyno record
What the dyno sheet shows is the effect of changing the 50 trim (which ever one he had) to a GT37 non ball bearing - that is ALL
Its irrelevant whether you think the "numbers" what ever that means are "good enough" or not
ALL that matters here is to show the difference between the two turbos as far as power band and how they work - ON THE SAME CAR
Of course I could make a few changes on the set up and increase power - for example by adding a AEM or a Buschur tubular header and o2 housing - but all of that is totally beisdes the point
This information is conveyed simply to help people who want to compare turbos
End of story
PS - if you want a dyno contest my Evo made 978 whp on this dyno and that was not even at peak boost
Al
I want to try and educate some of you about the reality of making a "test"
The customer is on pump gas on a low reading dyno in 95 degree air temps (its July) - the idea here is not to break a dyno record
What the dyno sheet shows is the effect of changing the 50 trim (which ever one he had) to a GT37 non ball bearing - that is ALL
Its irrelevant whether you think the "numbers" what ever that means are "good enough" or not
ALL that matters here is to show the difference between the two turbos as far as power band and how they work - ON THE SAME CAR
Of course I could make a few changes on the set up and increase power - for example by adding a AEM or a Buschur tubular header and o2 housing - but all of that is totally beisdes the point
This information is conveyed simply to help people who want to compare turbos
End of story
PS - if you want a dyno contest my Evo made 978 whp on this dyno and that was not even at peak boost
Al
Another thing to consider about that car is the amount of different turbo kits it has used in the last 2 years, the amazing lack of dyno sheets, and the ceaseless amounts of people that inflate the numbers the car makes.
You say 700hp from an RX6 (which maybe I dont know).
I have also read from Gruppe-S and J-Ondemand that it used an HKS 3037 (3076) and made 500whp, that it uses a Garage HRS header (which would seem to indicate a stock turbo).
The simple fact there is no hard evidence that supports any claims about the RX6 except for the people that have dyno'd it and see it doesnt seem to support anywhere near 500whp regardless of fuel. Its overpriced JDM hype that fails to deliver.
You say 700hp from an RX6 (which maybe I dont know).
I have also read from Gruppe-S and J-Ondemand that it used an HKS 3037 (3076) and made 500whp, that it uses a Garage HRS header (which would seem to indicate a stock turbo).
The simple fact there is no hard evidence that supports any claims about the RX6 except for the people that have dyno'd it and see it doesnt seem to support anywhere near 500whp regardless of fuel. Its overpriced JDM hype that fails to deliver.
My old car, with the RX6 TCW77 turbo, put down 494whp on 100oct with a wimpy piggyback, 30psi sustanined boost (thanks to the weak wastegate spring), and stock airbox with filter. I am sure with a bigger backside, full standalone, 35-38psi, complete JUN 2.2L engine with cams rev'ing to 9,500rpm, and MS109 or C16 600whp could be seen. Who knows how much more HP I could of thrown down on my old car if I could of increased the boost pressure beyond 30psi.
Last edited by jj_008; Jul 16, 2007 at 06:44 AM.
Well if its the time attack car I read in Super street it might be 600whp might. It only had 1000cc inj. ECU does not really make a difference on power if the tune is right. We ended up with the 460 on the pump meth and probably could have pushed the 500whp with race gas. I am quite sure with intake and other bolt ons with the bigger exhaust 550whp would be tops out of her which is a far far cry from 750whp it been calmed to make.
Sorry for going off topic AL. And thinks for posting tech info.
Sorry for going off topic AL. And thinks for posting tech info.
Finally and most importantly - the Dyno Dynamics I was using before was a joke - anyone can manipulate or adjust the dyno numbers with a few strokes of the key - the tach signal pick up never worked so the rpms were always based upon wheel speed and also the air temp sensor was also broken from day one.
Going back to a dyno jet to me means a more meaningful dyno figure for my customers and thus I feel having the newest state of the art dyno jet means that ICS is "better equiped"
Of course this is all highly subjective - let the customers make their own deicisions
Gentlemen
I want to try and educate some of you about the reality of making a "test"
The customer is on pump gas on a low reading dyno in 95 degree air temps (its July) - the idea here is not to break a dyno record
What the dyno sheet shows is the effect of changing the 50 trim (which ever one he had) to a GT37 non ball bearing - that is ALL
Its irrelevant whether you think the "numbers" what ever that means are "good enough" or not
ALL that matters here is to show the difference between the two turbos as far as power band and how they work - ON THE SAME CAR
Of course I could make a few changes on the set up and increase power - for example by adding a AEM or a Buschur tubular header and o2 housing - but all of that is totally beisdes the point
This information is conveyed simply to help people who want to compare turbos
End of story
PS - if you want a dyno contest my Evo made 978 whp on this dyno and that was not even at peak boost
Al
I want to try and educate some of you about the reality of making a "test"
The customer is on pump gas on a low reading dyno in 95 degree air temps (its July) - the idea here is not to break a dyno record
What the dyno sheet shows is the effect of changing the 50 trim (which ever one he had) to a GT37 non ball bearing - that is ALL
Its irrelevant whether you think the "numbers" what ever that means are "good enough" or not
ALL that matters here is to show the difference between the two turbos as far as power band and how they work - ON THE SAME CAR
Of course I could make a few changes on the set up and increase power - for example by adding a AEM or a Buschur tubular header and o2 housing - but all of that is totally beisdes the point
This information is conveyed simply to help people who want to compare turbos
End of story
PS - if you want a dyno contest my Evo made 978 whp on this dyno and that was not even at peak boost
Al
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1305404&page=3 tells it all man
AL moved from the shop to ICS. ICS is owned by the brother of the guy who owns the shop. They have a dynojet.
basically...
Finally and most importantly - the Dyno Dynamics I was using before was a joke - anyone can manipulate or adjust the dyno numbers with a few strokes of the key - the tach signal pick up never worked so the rpms were always based upon wheel speed and also the air temp sensor was also broken from day one.
Going back to a dyno jet to me means a more meaningful dyno figure for my customers and thus I feel having the newest state of the art dyno jet means that ICS is "better equiped"
Of course this is all highly subjective - let the customers make their own deicisions
BUT ONCE BEFORE HE SAID...
As much as I really have enjoyed my days tuning at Pruven, and how those guys are really great guys, when it comes to business, I must offer my customers the best product available.
There is no comparision between this Dyno Dynamics dyno and a Dyno Jet as far as usefulness as a tuning tool.
Forget about the increased accuracy - the DD is also much easier on the center diff and your cars drivetrain - that is reason enough to go to the better facility. This is not that great of a factor on Evos with a viscous front diff, however with Subarus that have an active diff a Dyno Jet can give the center diff a significant hard time - this is particularly the case on dyno jets which have different sized front and rear drums.
There is no comparision between this Dyno Dynamics dyno and a Dyno Jet as far as usefulness as a tuning tool.
Forget about the increased accuracy - the DD is also much easier on the center diff and your cars drivetrain - that is reason enough to go to the better facility. This is not that great of a factor on Evos with a viscous front diff, however with Subarus that have an active diff a Dyno Jet can give the center diff a significant hard time - this is particularly the case on dyno jets which have different sized front and rear drums.
in this thread https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...=dyno+dynamics post number 27
ITS CLASSIC AL. Its funny too because he has also so far said a dynojet is better on the evo's drivetrain and now he says the dynojet is better
^ thanks for taking the time to dig that up, want to search for an even older thread where he is raving about Pruven's dynojet..... what a joke, I am astonished people still let him touch their cars.
Scorke
Scorke