I was about to place an order, but with something better cooming out soon, mabye I should wait! What is the release date for the new design?

 

+1 pics look great

And is there a price change with the 2008 redesign?

 

Don't start this stupid argument again. There's some very large manufacturers that disagree with you and I'm sure they've done a bit more research than you. Of course, maybe you slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

+1

 

I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, however, I remember many people preached that anything that coats the IC interferes with heat transfer. Now people say anodizing and other things are ok.

Just because a large manufacturer says something doesn't mean I believe it. Tabacco companies, for example.

Let's say I agree with your premise...then the question becomes what is the difference between just anodizing and a coating like Swain's?

 

There are three possible mechanisms for heat transfer from the IC to the outside world: (1) radiation, (2) conduction, (3) convection. In general terms, the ability to transfer heat can be described by "thermal resistance". The higher the TR, the worse the IC is at getting rid of the heat. Coating the IC with any substance has the following effects:

(1) radiation - the most effective way to radiate is blackbody radiation. So the closer to absolute black that you can make the IC the better. However, this applies only to surfaces that see "cold" environments. A black surface also absorbs heat via radiation more effectively.

(2) conduction - that means transferring heat by physically touching something (e.g. where the IC is mounted to the car frame). It doesn't really play into things in this case, since the mount area is tiny compared to the radiation and convection effects.

(3) convection - that means transferring heat by flowing something over the IC (in this case air). That's the dominant transfer mode for the IC (unless it gets very hot, at which point radiation can become more important). Anything that goes between the hot air inside the IC and the cold air outside of it will increase thermal resistance (=painting/anodizing/etc is bad). Ideally, you want as little material between the two air streams as possible. However, the argument can be made that uncoated aluminum surfaces oxidize (especially when hot), and aluminumoxide has a worse thermal resistance than some specialized coatings do. So if the coating is (a) a very good heat conductor, and (b) very thin, then you can improve things over bare aluminum + oxide layer. There is also the challenge of applying the coating before the aluminum oxidizes (otherwise you get aluminum + oxide + coating, which is worse).


The perfect IC is highly reflective where it faces the car (to reflect radiation), and perfectly black where it faces "outside", and has a coating with lower thermal resistance than the natural aluminum oxide layer that builds up on bare aluminum. If such a thing exists, and whether or not the Full Race coating qualifies for that, I don't have a clue.

 

Any plans on an updated design with pipe runs like the Runduce? That would shorten it almost 40" total ... might need a smaller radiator though.

 

The Sema Booth looked great Geoff, nice talking to you again.

 

This guy is right. It is the convection between the aluminum surface and air that dominates the thermal resistances in intercooler on several orders of magnitude over that of the conductance thru the aluminum. If you can find a coating that has higher values for its convection coefficients than aluminum, and the coating is thin enough that the conductance thru it does not offset the gain from the increased convection, than in the end your system will be better off.

There are coating that can do this too! I would say even coating the inside could be beneficial.

THe hard part is finding a coating.......

 

Well since convection is directly related to the thermal conductivity of the substance used in coating just finding a better element to coat/electroplate the intercooler with should be sufficient in increasing the thermal coefficient of the apparatus.

Some thermal conductivity for some materials according to the wiki:

Aluminum = 237 W/mk
Gold = 310 W/mk
Copper = 401 W/mk
Silver = 429 W/mk
Diamond = 900 – 2320 W/mk

According to the wiki the most thermally conductive material would be diamond but since neither you nor god is willing to coat an intercooler in it lets look at something less expensive like... copper. Copper is nearly twice the conductor of energy as aluminum so I imagine an intercooler electroplated with a copper coating could conceivably be more efficient then a standard core.

 

What is the release date on the new design?

 

Hey Geoff I was wondering if you guys had any more pictures from SEMA? For the guys who missed it

I'm a big fan of all your guys' products If i didn't get my Evo I would be rocking your B-series AC kit =D

Also Just wondering I'm sorry if it was covered (and if it was just let me know i'll search around for it) but why did you choose to go Tube and Fin on the Intercooler? I thought the "general rule" was:
Tube and Fin = Lighter
Bar and Plate = More efficient (on cooling)
I don't remember anything about pressure drop

Thanks Geoff for time,
Vincent

 

hey vincent thanks alot for your kind words. We do have a few pics of the SEMA stuff, what in particular are you looking for? let me know and ill send some over.

both intercooler core styles have +/- to them. Tube and fin have a lower pressure drop, and are lighter. Bar and Plate have greater heat transfer, but higher pressure drop. The core that is chosen for each application will depend largely on what size the core is, its orientation, end tank configuration, turbo size and the vehicle's application (circuit, street, drag, etc). Additionally you have to think about the effect the core has on ambient air as it passes thru the core and heads towards the radiator and condenser. Long story short, you have to weigh the +/- of each style core, and pick the best one for the application at hand

thanks for coming by chris, good to see you, rob and the rest of the crew!

the charge pipe setup on the runduce time attack car is certainly not AC compatible, and it requires a custom radiator/core/endtanks/hoses -- its not a street kit at all. We are building an evo right now which addresses exactly these points, however for 99% of enthusiasts it is not going to work. for the last 1%, wait for the pics we put up in the next week or two


expected release is late 2007/early 2008, we will definately keep evom posted!!

thanks guys

 

Will you guys consider making a version of this intercooler with shorter upper IC piping for people without ACD or an IC spray unit?

 

It's not too much a problem with the ACD, more the AC condenser. Check it out, it fills up the entire area under the radiator support where the piping would go. Their "all out kit" Geoff mentioned looks awesome... can't wait to see that car start competing with some of the big dogs in the Evo world.