You are trying to convince the wrong person. I have likely more experience on here than anyone when its comes to water and alky injection. I have been a user for 25 years. I have tried everything including making my and trying everything that has come down the pipe in the last 25 years.. I have never been without at least one turbo car in the driveway and have never built a car without alky or water injection.

problems with progressive pumps are huge.
you are trying to run them wide open with no pressure relief. that has many problems incuding the output of the pump varies with level in the tank, output voltage of battery(alt is not always at 13.8 sometimes not even at 13), turbo ramp speed, temperature of intake system( varies with frequency of boost) , age of pumps that start to leak usually at 3 months age(lucky if you get 6 months from one) And the list goes on.

I could write 5000 words on the subject as a primer, but dont have time for that. At the end you still have TTP and the like saying its all bunk so whats the point?

 

The picture is blocked here at work....how much is it making and what type of dyno? (sorry if I missed it).

 

376/381


I agree water made my tune richer. But even leaning it out didn't really make more power. I was able to make more power with 100% alchy. Very curious to see your results. Mostly interested in timing changed between the 50/50 map and the 100 map.

 

Thanks

 

Water shouldn't richen the AFR, should it?

Maybe if the plug gap were too wide or the ignition wasn't up to the task?

 

I'm just telling you what I saw on my wideband. I had been running 100% alchy and was dialed in for 12:1 AFR. I then tried a 50/50 mix on the same tune and my power went down as did my AFRs by about 1 full point.

I then did what Al does and dialed in my AFR back to 12:1 again. The car still was down on power. I tried adding some timing but the car seemed much more sensative to knock with 12:1 on 50/50 than it did on 100 alchy.

I think the 50/50 approach may help conserve alchy and fuel but it is unable to achieve the same power level. Also keep in mind that relying more on water is an even bigger gotya if your system takes a crap.

I am guessing that the gains depend alot on your turbo and boost levels.

 

Changing from 100% M to 50M/50W will drop your incylinder temperature more due to water's higher latent heat. You wil probably need to dial in more boost to retain or gain power.

 

Al,

This is a very nice tune

Looking forward to hear more about the tune after this weekend's race at Etown. I hope you are allowed to race.

 

And that would work on a car with a bigger turbo....... but on the stock turbo its hard to get any more power up top where the car needs it. So for me, using water cost me power (enough to notice) that I was unable to recover via timing or boost.

 

There is very true, as you are moving further away from the high efficiency island, all you get a hotter air without extra mass air flow increase.

Perhaps the unproven pre-turbo injection will shift the turbo flow map towards the right. It should help to increase the flow. Worth considering?

 

^^^ LOL thats out of my comfort zone.