How efficient do you think the TS 40R would be on 2.0L? What kind of power could i make with a kit like that.thanks

 

I'm sure it depends on what supporting mods you have, but I'm thinking on a well built car 700-800WHP. What I want to know is that same TS 40R on a stock bottom with head work with meth would do... I think I'm going to be the one to try

 

^I just want to know what a TS GT40R will make on a stock block. stock heads with 93 pump and meth.

 

There are 3 different GT40s, though only 2 are available in BB (Rs). You'll have to pick one. In journal bearing you can get the 4082 (~57 lbs/min and the 4088 (~72 lbs/min). The 4088 is also available in BB. The 4094R (80 lbs/min) is BB only. If the 4094 could be had in journal bearing, I'd have ordered one for the RWD instead of the 42r.

The T67 moves ~75 lbs/min, so the 4088 comes in a bit smaller (journal and ball bearing options use slightly different compressors), and the 4094 is a bit larger. The smaller 4082 compressor is more compressor is more comparable to a 35R.

Any turbo mentioned at all in this post is big enough that you are block limited on the stock block, not turbo limited. So asking what a GT40xx will do on a stock block is kind of pointless.

 

Agreed. It's cheaper to build a shortblock than it is to first replace major components (block, crank, head, etc.) that were irreparably damaged by piston or rod failure, and then build it. I was lucky, as it seems I only suffered a cracked piston. When she goes, nobody knows . . .

 

Ive not used turbos of this size but my money would be on the GT4088R .

HKS obviously does some clever marketing to add that you must have one of these T04Z glamors to be top kid on the block . In all truth they are just a ball bearing T04R with slightly better (and hornier looking) housings .
I really am surprised that HKS didn't get in on the GT4088R act because I'm not sure there's anything useful a T04Z can do that a GT4088R can't do as well or better .

For those that have compressor maps as wallpaper at home take a good look at the ones for the GT4088R and the T04Z . At a glance the Z's map looks like a great high pressure ratio thing and maxes out with a few more pounds of air than the GT4088R . Garret have chosen not to publish TURBINE maps for the old T04 P trim but if they did thats where you would find very significant differences between an 88R and the Z turbo .

Eventually when people learn to accept the whole twin scroll thing they'll realise that you can make real good power and torque from adequate but not necessarily HUGE compressor air flow rates . To look at whats being done with the real GT3071R in TS form its impossible to draw any other conclusion . This is why I keep saying that we MUST do everything in our power to reduce turbine inlet pressure whilst keeping turbine response adequate - thats if you are hell bent in getting the best overall result anyway .

The thing I think about often is what people can and can't justify spending on cars to get a result . If you've torn up a tall stack of notes to own a late Evo/STI/Skyline etc you obviously didn't want to go the large capacity heavy traditional performance car route - for obvious reasons . The smaller lighter AWD turbo terrors have all kinds of advantages over the truck engined barges though naturally roll out the factory door with smaller capcacity engines . Its old news that you can get V8 grunt easily enough but if you want it over a broad enough rev range to make it nice to live with you have to take advantage of the best technology available . The best will cost more , not because those with the ability to create it want to rob you but because its more involved to make and suitable materials are expensive and more difficult to fabricate . If you think you can take any old water pipe manifold and throw it on with any large turbo your kidding yourself if you think your getting a good result . There's absolutely no magic or black art involved in ANY of this , its pretty much a known quantity and if anyone tries to tell you any different then thats the individuals problem . Anyone with red blood in their veins that loves automotive performance should take the time to learn about how it all works or their just not serious about it .

Sorry for the long rant , I'd take the TS GT4088R and forget all about the T04Z - if the result was everything . If it was a carpark bonnet up ooh ahh competition then maybe the Z would impress the cheer squad .

Your call , cheers A .

 

Disco,

I have a TO4R compressor wheel mated to a GT40R turbine in a BB cartridge, how do you think that stacks up, compared to a GT4088R?

 

Yes there was a mob over you side of the pacific making up what they called a "GT4067R" . I think it was not too long after the production GT4088R cartridge came available and I think innitially it was using different compressor and turbine housings - possibly from Garretts GT4082 .

I haven't used it either but I did talk to a few people who did and they didn't think its performance was anything special at the time .
My own unconfirmed theories lead me to think that using the ball bearing or UHP type GT40 turbine would not be the best match for the large (63T) T04R or BCI8D family compressor . In recent times Garrett have finally decided to bring the trim size of some of their GT turbines (HP - high Pressure Ratio diesel spec + UHP -Ultra High Pressure Ratio petrol spec) down from the usual 84T size to ~ 78T . I think this large diametre turbine in a medium trim size is all about having long enough blades (torque arms) to turn high capacity compressors and using the lesser turbine trim to keep the turbines response adequate . I also think the 52T 88mm C117 compressor is squarely aimed at a lot of airflow while having minimum turbine power requirements and not stratospheric revs to work well .

In other words they seem to be finding the largish diametre medium trim turbine works well with a largish medium trim compressor - note with more blades ie 7 full height + 7 splitter blades . The T04R compressor is 84mm 63T vs the C117's 88mm 52T so size and trim wise the R wheel is not really in step .
Where the T04Z's P trim turbine is different is its smaller 76 trim and greater blade count - 11 vs 10 , diametre wise the P is about 74.4mm vs the GT40's 77mm .
Also I remember some mob stateside doing a .8x A/R single scroll turbine housing for the "GT4067R" and I suppose that was an attempt to pull the bottom end response of it up a bit . I now think thats not the way to go about it and really its just not a good match of turbine to compressor speed ranges . To cap it all off that hybrid turbo requires a custom compressor backplate and that increases the manufacturing costs .

At this stage the 4088R , now that Garrett uses the right housings , would be my preference of the two and the fact that they are an off the shelf stock item is handy as well . A great all rounder in its airflow range IMO , a big turbo that doesn't initially feel like one if set up properly .

Hopefully in time Garrett will get off their ring and produce a fractionally smaller version based on a UHP petrol material spec GT37 turbine and with the appropriate trims to work like a slightly smaller GT4088R . GT3782R with 50/52T C117 compressor ?

Hope my narrow opinions help , cheers A .

 

has anybody run the full race TS kit without using the intercooler that comes with the kit. cuz i a getting and ets intercooler kit and in the furture i want to get one of the full race ts kit.

 

i agree!!

we have never seen or test fitted an ets intercooler, but i see no reason why you would have a problem. if anything you might just need to slightly modify your hot pipe

 

How about the HKS T51R KAI, how can that be compared to a Garret turbo?

 

that T51 is just a GT4294R but has a singlescroll vband inlet/outlet turbine housing, as opposed to the garrett twinscroll T4 inlet 4" vband outlet.. also the T51R is way more expensive.

 

i still want a gt35r ts on a 2.3l block for road course duty.

 

I looked into those Garrett/HKS T51R's a while back because I found out that the turbine trim is 76T and initially thought Garrett had made a version of their GT42 turbine in 76T specifically for HKS . It turns out that its really just a 76T T51 turbine in the large frame BB or GT plain bearing shaft size .

I'd say this is another instance where HKS opted for a non GT series turbine because in their often lackluster trim size (84T) they can lack response - particularly (IMO) in a single scroll turbine housing .
To me it seems obvious that a smaller trim GT42 turbine would have been better but maybe a small number of these would have proved too expensive . Also BTW I think the T51 turbine is 11 bladed where the GT42 I think has 10 . You could be excused for thinking this is along similar lines to the T04Z with its T4 P trim turbine .

I think it would be interesting to see a T51R KAI and a twin scroll GT4294R tested back to back to see response and low to mid range if there is such a thing on an under 3.5L engine ...

REALLY need more 78T GT turbines right across the BB range AND the 60mm NS111 turbine option on some small frame tubos .

Cheers A .

 

35r is fine for up to and over 600hp...just think a 42r doesnt hit full boost till 7700 rpms ..thats useless unless your at the 1320