Its all in a good combination! It starts with a good intercooler, efficient turbo, and good tuning. Running high boost on pump isnt new! Some DSM guys have been doing for years! I run 30psi on pump in my galant 4 years ago! From what i remember it all started with DRE and his 2g when he made over 500whp on pump years back.

 

I agree, nothing new here in terms of boost on pump. I've been reading dyno charts off the MLR (UK Evo forum) for several years of pump gas motors running as much as 2.2 bar boost. And that is on 97 RON which is equivalent to US 93 octane. What I see is around 600 hp is normal for a 35R. That is flywheel engine dyno measured not atw.

What I find comical is how about a year ago EVERY SINGLE PERSON on this forum thought 23 psi was the limit on pump irrespective of anything else. IMHO this shows the lack of experience of tuners on this board.

I believe Pete's car is making about the same power on pump as his old 37 setup did on race because Dave is becoming a better tuner. I mean no offense, but hasn't DB only been mapping cars a few years?

All that said, I'm not sure any Evo out there on pump is as strong as this one with a 35R... I know Simon Norris did one recently with GT4X sumpin which made 822 hp on an engine dyno on pump. That was mapped by Mark Shead @ MADevelopments who I was lucky enough to convince come map my car.

In summary, there are just too many examples of Evo's making big power on pump to not believe it. I think Dave's result here is exceptional though as it might be the most powerful 35R ever built on pump and maybe race too.

 

I think headwork plays a big roll with high psi on pump gas.

 

**I will answer your questions below. They are all marked with (**) before my answer. Before I do let me say this. Even though there are haters out there who think what they might about me. I do spend more time testing parts, combinations and ideas out there than anyone else that I have ever been aware of. I have been doing nothing but the 4g63 engine for 19 years now, nothing else. I have kept the passion for this engine all this time and still have it. Up until about 4 years ago I never used a stand alone, now it's all I do and am obsessed with constantly improving it. I'll also be honest and tell you that a year and a half ago I'd have called "me" a liar too with these claims I am making now. I have been busting my *** developing new parts, testing other companies parts etc. to find what works and doesn't. There is SO MUCH JUNK ON THE MARKET. IF you get all the right parts together all I can tell you is 30 psi is not hard at all on pump gas.

[QUOTE=Tracy;5322535]BTW these are my PERSONAL statements, not the shop i work for.
I have owned/build several 600+whp Hondas, Supras, 240s, etc.
The shop i work for has owned and tuned a few 600-700whp EVOs.
They owned the stock turbo record for a long time IIRC (it was before i worked here).
They also had a shop EVO that made 700+whp.
The owner of Batlground is a pretty well known tuner, AEM certified, etc.
Now, let me state, I AM NOT A TUNER. I ONLY TUNE MY OWN CARS, NOT CUSTOMERS.
My words may have been kind of harsh, but you have to understand, what you guys are claiming, makes NO SENSE.
Ive seen some of the EVO and DSM guys run over 20psi on pump gas, which imo is flirting with disaster.

**That is rediculous. The EVO comes with 20 psi from the factory. We have been tuning them for every customer that comes through the shop at 23 psi since 2003.

what makes an EVO motor so special that it can bend all the tuning rules compared to other internal combustion engines?

**The head design is a huge factor in the equation. I am sure there are other engines that will do the same thing BUT I can't say for sure as I don't work on any other engines.

Please, maybe since im not a DSM guy i dont know.
But in my personal experience you cannot run 30psi on PUMP GAS without any octane booster and achieve the numbers that you are seeing.

**I will put my life on the line saying there is NO octane booster, NO race gas, NO alky injection or anything else being used. It is straight up 93 octane from many different gas stations.

I dont see how you can be aggresive enough on pump gas to make those numbers without a ping.

**This car we are talking about isn't even the first EVO I've done that has broken 500 whp, this is just the current and most powerful. I've done atleast 5 EVO's now that have made over 500 on 93. Trent's car has gone 10.6 at 134 mph on straight 93 and is full weight, a/c and all, it made 515 whp.

Again, please explain to me what im missing here that makes this evo so special.
Why can i not run a supra at 30psi on pump gas, or a honda at 30psi on pump gas without a piston melting, but on EVOs you are all saying its fine.

**I've tuned a few Supras. I'd be willing to be I could run 30 psi on one with 93 octane if I was able to also build the car first. Cylinder head, camshaft, turbo, FMIC.

You have any knock logs?

**Of course I do. Will I post them, no. The guy's been driving the car for over a year.........obviously it's right. Trent drives his car 62 miles EACH way to work every single day with 30 psi as his minimum boost setting. His car has never had a problem either.

 

Thanks for all the PM's.
I just spoke with Tom,from Driven Innovations.He ,makes the intake manifolds and is working very hard.He personally and Mike worked on my car for 9 hours.
I watched Tom and mike make the manifold and my upper pipe,and modify my Buschur Race intercooler.
So I will try to explain this so everyone can understand me.
The OUTLET on the Buschur Race Front mount Intercooler was modified to 3 inch.
Yes Buschur will sell you this intercooler setup that way.Or have someone modify it for you,if you already have one.If you have to send yours back to Buschur I'm sure he will modify it.
The new upper pipe is also 3 inch,yes Buschur can sell you one probably similar to the one he already sells.
I am using the BBK75mm T/B,was reccomended because the throttle shaft is bigger than some other ones,use your own preference and Tom can make any size T/B fit on the manifold.When you order it make sure you know what T/B you are going to run.Yes Buschur sells them to.
Yes you can buy the intake manifold from Buschur,probably going to be A couple weeks before any are avalible because Tom has told me he can't keep up with the orders.
Tom makes the manifold's one at a time and from my own eye witness,he does them perfectly.Believe me it's worth the wait.
Sorry I have been on the phone alot and trying to answer PM's.
I hope this helps everyone and enjoy your gains,you'll be very happy!!

 

FYI - Buschur supplied me with a 3" outlet fmic and 3" fmic upper pipe with Q45 T/B almost 2 years ago - this is hardly a new combination

Al

 

[quote=davidbuschur;5323478]**I will answer your questions below. They are all marked with (**) before my answer. Before I do let me say this. Even though there are haters out there who think what they might about me. I do spend more time testing parts, combinations and ideas out there than anyone else that I have ever been aware of. I have been doing nothing but the 4g63 engine for 19 years now, nothing else. I have kept the passion for this engine all this time and still have it. Up until about 4 years ago I never used a stand alone, now it's all I do and am obsessed with constantly improving it. I'll also be honest and tell you that a year and a half ago I'd have called "me" a liar too with these claims I am making now. I have been busting my *** developing new parts, testing other companies parts etc. to find what works and doesn't. There is SO MUCH JUNK ON THE MARKET. IF you get all the right parts together all I can tell you is 30 psi is not hard at all on pump gas.

Thanks for that post Dave, thats what i was looking for.

Like i said, im not a tuner, im not an EVO guy. I was harsh in my first comments because what you are claiming goes against every other make an model i have ever worked with.

I never doubted the whp numbers, i merely wanted to know some TECHNICAL data about why the evo can withstand more boost on pump gas than any other engine i have ever seen.

30psi on a honda, 2JZ (IMO ) ,SR would not last more than 2000 miles.

Perhaps its from the camshaft selection (lowering dynamic compression) . Maybe i need to study the quench on the EVO head compared to the SUpra an Honda heads.

My offer on IA stands Dave, id like to speak to you further

 

I hate the telephone. You can send me a PM if you want.

 

Mellon is now running 30psi on pump i believe..
i am actually running 27 psi between 4k-6.5k on pump and then it tapers to 24psi...this is on the stock turbo...on 93oct ONLY not any other suppliment...for the past year (~ 10,000 miles)...

my new setup is exactly simmillar to pete's car except i have the AMS VSR and a different tuner..we are hoping to run 30psi...i will let you guys know whaat happens

 

yep, 30psi on 93 octane...no track numbers yet but..

DLL = 535awhp
G-tech say 11.33 @ 127 spinning through first gear

stock ecu, stock mas, stock head, stock block

just sold my BR deluxe fmic for a BR race fmic, hoping to get some cooler charged air and better power at the same boost level.

 

looks like ICS dyno reads 6% higher than buschur.

its to bad people like " tracy " cant think outside of the box.

this HTA35R is like nothing we've had before, and with these new IM's and new combinations of such quality parts, with people like DB who have the ***** and the skill to try things, records and new highs were bound to emerge.

tracy your making your battlground shop look like closed minded skill lacking people. maybe you should put your time into trying to learn instead of dismissing the people breaking records.

isnt that how people get better?

 

DB has said the HTA mod does nothing for peak horsepower.

 

Its amazing what these engines can do with the right combination of parts.

Pete is now a few steps ahead of my build, but by looking at the posts, he went with the nearly identical path I had planned for myself (I'm behind on the head, intercooler, and HTA modified 35r) I run a stock ECU. At the moment I frequently run 27psi or so on pump gas, even more if I'm feeling frisky.

I wish I was still up in the northeast to witness the fruits of his, and Daves labor. I'm now in a county that has no Emission/OBD requirements, and may switch to a standalone, but I'm still making good numbers with a stock ECU. This says alot for the quality of the parts Buschur offers. Not only do they work well with a stock motor (as mine is with HKS 280 cams) but they come to life even more with the right combination of parts.

When it comes to pump gas horsepower.. ITS ALL ABOUT THE COMBINATION. I've said this from 2003, The right combination will make the power, the less work you make for the turbo and engine, the easier it is to make the power. This only emphasizes that fact.

Anyone can throw a bunch of parts together, but having them work in concert is where the secret is... That and proper tuning by a tuner who really understands their combination of parts. The more restrictions, turbulence, etc. You can eliminate, the better the bolt-on parts will work, obviously within reason.

a Good ignition system is also key, especially if you want to run the car on pump and high boost.

Pete's pump tune has roughly 100hp on mine now, PLUS he's got over 400lbs lighter than my car. My car was pretty quick, but it looks like his car would walk away and never look back..

Pete.. You and Dave raised the bar.. Once I have some money coming in, Dave will be getting a grocery list of parts so I can get my built long block, HTA upgrade, Race intercooler, and finish the rest of the parts I've had sitting around.

Congrats guys.. I thought my car was friggin quick on pump gas only

 

jack, you're running the GM MAF-T + stock ECU right? any problems with the AFR wandering around with ambient temp changes? I had massive problems with that on my stealth which is why I'm sticking to the stock MAS as long as I can.

also I'm not sure I agree with you on the ignition system yet...I'm rockin the stock coils and copper plugs, no blowout at 30psi

 

Just a few steps? Long block, intercooler, turbo, ECU Those are some big steps.

What did you make on pump and on what dyno and what boost?

I had a problem with my Buschur CDI... had to go back to stock coils for a while. Was fine on pump at 2.2 bar boost. Running Denso plugs. Very cool ones.