Hey Mellon, which BR exhaust manifold did you go with?

 

The motor is not bending any rules. Rather, it is the imaginary boundries of our preconceived perceptions that are being bent.

See my comment to crcain just below . . .

Unfortunately, it is difficult to argue with your statement. Many of us here (myself included) assumed that the most visible U.S. tuners had already tested the limitations of the ignition advance/boost pressure balance. After all, with all the dyno testing and drag racing they do, why would we doubt that? What we didn't realize is they also had assumed the same things as us. In their defense however, being that there exists no handy gauge to tell us the position of the piston when max cylinder pressure occurs (the true measure of how much boost is practical), they really didn't know any more than the rest of us did.

It seems the psychological intimidation of using more boost pressure was the real barrier here.

Anyway, not one person in this forum (professional tuners included) can go without offering props to Mark Snead and the UK tuners for teaching us this valuable lesson. Whatever happens from this point forward is a direct result of their revelations, and we all owe them proper credit. As a result of this, I am working on a little test rig that will hopefully prove to be useful in determining the point of diminishing returns with respect to boost pressure vs. ignition advance.

Again, thanks to the UK tuners for putting up with us. And lastly, if there were nothing left for even the most experienced, most knowledgeable of us to learn, we wouldn't waste our time being here.

 

crcain,

If you have a Buschur CDI and have problems with it contact me so we can get it fixed.

This thread has been off topic a few times already and I don't want to get it too far off again but.........I did start it haha

Tuning, I have been "tuning" cars since I was 16. Now tuning in my past was simple, jetting changes on carbs, turning knobs on VPC/GCC's and having Todd from TMO burn me new chips for the old DSM ECU's but as simple as these things sound now and the haters who laugh at what I did then, I did manage to run 7's at 175 mph, win 3 Championships in IDRC Pro Import in ONE year and kept the engines together. My point is I did not tune any standalones until just under 4 years ago. My absolute BIGGEST problem learning was simply learning to use a computer. Up until 4 years ago I was only able to answer e-mail through AOL and to be honest, that was rough. I never had ANY computer training, so the hardest part was learning to navigate and use a computer. The basics of tuning were always there. Since that time I have spent thousands of hours tuning, learning, reading, dyno'ing and furthering my ability to use a computer. When I say thousands that is no overstatement.

A year and a half ago I'd have said this type of power was impossible on a 2 liter on pump gas. No way in hell, I'd have been fighting over it and called someone a liar. The fact of the matter is now it isn't even that difficult if you have the right parts combination put together.

When Peter was here I was telling him that by the end of this year I wouldn't be surprised if 35-40 psi on 93 octane wasn't possible. I am sure, 100% that my RS will easily make over 600 whp on 93 octane on OUR dyno. I will find out in the next few weeks. (just built a new header yesterday-again).

Something else that I want to point out. In the last year and half I have opened my mind up considerably to trying new things. I use to be like many shops are now and feel "my parts are the best" end of story. I think when you get into that frame of mind you are going to get stuck sooner or later. I would bet money that I spend more time testing parts than any other shop there is in the DSM/EVO community. Not just my parts but other parts from other companies. We did a few weeks of FMIC, camshaft and turbo testing just to get a grasp on what and why. I have spent another week on just turbine housings, another on intake manifolds recently, another on cylinder heads and now I have tested probably 5-6 different header designs. I DO NOT SIT STILL ON THE 4G63 ENGINE, EVER. If I find a part that works better, I buy it from the company that made it. If I see a way to improve on it, I do that and make it. I don't see anyone else doing this type of testing, if they do they are smart enough to keep the knowledge to themselves to stay fast. This is unlike me who feels the need to post it all publically Great benefit to you guys.

I'm not done yet! Keep your minds open. Our chassis builder said something to me that I try to remember, "Once you think you know everything, you can't learn anything else." That's why I test, the people who think my test results are "rigged, dishonest or lies" think they know everything. What everyone has to remember is I WANT THE MOST POWER I CAN GET. If I found someone I didn't like made a part that produced those results, I'd have to use it.

Enjoy your day.

 

at first I was going to do cast to keep the sticker shock down but the shipment was delayed a bit and I saved a few coins in the mean time so I decided to do it once and do it right and get the tubular. no regrets

 

Ted B, I have no idea who Mark Snead is. I am exempt from your statement. Until I did it myself and crcain pointed out that others in the UK were doing it I had no idea. I don't care what other people/tuners/shops are doing. In that area I am still closed minded, I have to do for myself or I won't believe it.

P.S. As I was typing my above post you must have been typing yours so my first post was not in response to anything after post 256.

 

same here, no friggin clue lol

 

This is really off-topic, but relevent to the thread as its about buschur products.

I'm not running MAFT, I'm running a Ford Cobra Granetelli sensor and electronics from Pro-M. I have an air temp sensor and it seems to run consistently most of the time.

I've tried 3 different Ignitions, an early COP design I cobbled together using motorcycles and a MOTEC CDI, had lots of trouble with the coils. a variation of the 300m coils, and a AEM C2DI, again, had some trouble with the CDI, and currently I'm running stock coils with an HKS DLI2. I'll agree that I'm running well with my stock coils with the right plugs and the HKS, but once your at this level, its all about giving yourself enough headroom, and consistency. So one of my next investments will be a Buschur COP.

To the other post about the steps behind.. Yes, their big steps, but a head upgrade, and a few of those other parts are just required next steps, and come with the territory. For me an engine swap is a few hours of work, so its really not that big of a deal.

I won't take this thread off topic, but I used my example as making a point about the huge gains with good tuning and Buschur parts. Good parts make power, but a good combination and tune will make the most power with the least work.

BTW there is a reason I dont post much data on my car.. I'll leave it at that.

 

Mark Snead is the UK builder/tuner whose work crcain was referencing. He's been using considerably higher boost pressures than we do for quite some time (as is evident in their forum), and with good results. Crcain illustrated this on multiple occasions some time ago, right here in this forum.

At first, I wrote it off as a difference in the fuel, dynos, etc., but that was incorrect. The fact that they don't usually give a hoot about drag racing gave no yardstick there either.

 

I also tried a PRO-M setup years ago right before they went belly up...it was junk, I suspect i had a bad unit...the airflow signal would flip out and go crazy, it's a wonder I didn't cook the engine with the wild AFR spikes. The company then claimed that they had a "bad batch".

I get what you're saying about the HKS DLI II + COP, it's just that I refuse to throw parts at a car until it gives me a good reason to...I like to find the limits before I upgrade.

 

Hi Dave.. I was in no way asserting you saw the UK making big boost / power on pump and decided to try it. I would not pretend to know what realizations you made in the last year or so that changed things.

I will say that for all your firsts with the 4G63 (and you have a lot )... I'm afraid you weren't the first to map big boost, high bhp pump gas evos. The UK big name tuners were doing it years ago.

That said, 620 dynojet I think now puts you in the lead of pump gas power. Normal UK pump gas GT35R cars are aroudn 620 flywheel horsepower.

ps: my cdi box did crap out, I sent it back to AMS, then it went to you, and finally back to me. thank you for taking care of it for me. received it back the other day. not sure why it died.

 

Again, my name is MIKE, i work for batlground, but my opinion do no reflect THEIR VIEWS.

This is the shops screename on here so i am useing it. I though i was clear that this is my personal discussion, NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SHOP I WORK FOR.

Ones quest for knowledge involves more than just reading a dyno sheet and saying "awesome". I was looking for technical data (which i still havent seen) as to why the evo could get away with things that other engines simple cannot.

Ive been around a few dynos and tuners in my time. Ive owned anything from 240whp NA hondas to 700whp 2JZZ swapped 240s.

I have never owned a DSM, so, when someone posted the results on a local forum, i dismissed them. Its simply something i had never seen before and goes against everything i have ever seen. Ive been around a few 500-800whp evos locally, and they have had Bushur motors before. None of them ran their cars at that boost on pump gas.

Maybe we are close minded, but its simply because the personal experience and rule of thumb for many tuners is 20-22psi on pump gas is dangerous. (AFTERMARKET TURBO).

When i asked for reasons why, i was simply told, because its bushur.

I was looking for someone to say something about VE, quench, burn rate, combustion efficiency, etc.

Obviously thats not going to happen.

I will simply have to accept that this particular EVO (and others) have done amazing things.

Thanks

MIKE

 

some people on this and many forums get so damn hung up on the technical theories that they don't get anything done. The rest of us simply give the car what it wants.

 

how much room for error is there? i think we are getting the wrong impression here . like you can do this on your dd driver and run 30 lbs. on it and go fill up at the local texaco.

i mean the car has to be tuned on the brinks here. not no much afr but timing ignition etc.

what happens at 30 lbs and a bad tank of 93 " pump" of gas???

i mean the thing would be knocking like a jehovah's witness on a saturday morning, no?

i mean it is all well and good to make these numbers but you can not agrue the safety of using race gas at these boost levels or a meth kit.

right?

 

Everyone is talking about parts combinations as perhaps being the key to running higher boost on pump. While this is true to some degree, let's take AMS customer car for Sharkbite.... surely this car has the right parts combination?

But Sharkbite makes 200 atw less then U2SLO.

Now is parts combination the difference or is tuning the difference?

I know it's controversial but I just find it soooo interesting. Take your car to Buschur and spend 20-30k... and you get 600 ATW on pump LOL

Take the some money to AMS and you get 400 ATW on pump....

Yes AMS and Buschur get along great... but does that mean we can't talk about these obvious differences?

 

I'm not suggesting to anyone to try it, just sharing my experience and i've tried 93 octane from a handful of different gas stations in different states with my car, it makes no difference.

I don't buy into that whole "I got a bad tank of gas" excuse...it's your tune most likely if you're knocking

so lets say you put in race gas and or meth and retune the car to the edge again, are you really any safer?