no, I trust the sensor more than some other tuners, but I haven't confirmed my feeling with det cans.

I think alot of people are quick to blame knock counts on false knock

 

The open dump tube on the turbo has ZERO effect on the knock sensor.

 

Dave can explain. What advantages is there to switching to the AEM..and not staying with a flash?

 

Removed because it was Irrelevant to this thread.

 

Yeah my only experience is with Autronic so I just don't know. I have always had a high regard for the stock ECU mostly because of it's knock control. But it is interesting to hear from Al that built motors and high horsepower and the stock ECU loses it's accuracy.

 

I want to agree with Dave on this point as this is a misconception I have seen brought up a few times. The only time you might transmit sound into the block that might be misinterpreted as knock, is if you have some sort of metal on metal contact that could transmit the sound directly to the block.. The sensor for the most part will only pick up noises transmitted through the block, unless it was something huge (and most likely catestrophic if that were the case..)

The only time I have seen an Evo engine affected by loud noises, is the stock MAF picking up concussive noise.. Not the knock sensor.

 

I tend to trust the knock sensor, I also use DET cans and my observations in MOST scenarios is the ECU properly picks up most of the knock events. Its not perfect, but no system really is. Hence why most tunes are more conservative.

There is also a misconception that tunes have to have ZERO knock to be good tunes, zero knock means its a conservative tune, and safe, but under varying loads and conditions, knock is inevitable. Its the job of the ECU to properly handle these occasional knock events. This is DIFFERENT than running a tune that knocks severely enough to always rely on the knock sensor to save someone from a bad tune.

There have been some occasions where I have picked up false knock, one specifically was when my downpipe was hitting my crossmember, but those events typically occur predictably almost always with similar conditions.

This is where the difference between a tuner and hobbyist comes into play, the tuner has the experience and knows how to approach these things.

I definitely don't recommend disabling the knock sensor, unless the tune itself really well done, and there are never any other variables that can come into play.

I also see there is a misconception about knock, yes, on high strung high boost engines, knock can quickly do damage, but you'd be surprised how many engines I've seen that have been knocking for a long time, and don't show signs of damage. Its not to say that there isn't any, but its not possible to know for certain until something fails. And this is something I saw on MANY tunes from MANY tuners. Since many of the tunes are done on a Dyno, and their left rich. As soon as your on the street, its a different environment, and adjustments are usually made. But conditions change and many tunes still have some level of knock.

Pete's car and Dave's efforts Illustrate what is POSSIBLE with the right combination of parts, and it proves this is possible. It also is a BIG FAT ROADMAP on why reducing restrictions makes more power.

All I see on these forums is guys bolting up giant turbos to otherwise very stock engine and head combos, and they are disappointed with the power, the tunes, they have to run METH or Race gas to make the power they were promised.. Next time you wonder why this is the case, go for a swim across a pool, but breathe through a straw instead of a snorkle.. You'll get the point..

 

So what sensor is throwing the PO300 code random cylinder misfire? That %90 of the guys with the Evo 9 with the Cosworth cams are seeing?

Isn't it valvetrain noise?

 

I don't think it loses its accuracy, I think the problem is you've now changed the harmonics of the engine, and we don't yet have the tools or information, to properly adjust for these new combinations. Mitsubishi has the advantage of being able to analyse engines for a long time under many conditions to build knock filters that are supposed to properly function. Its something that most of us would never have the resources to do. On the other hand, the ECU could be patched to offer much simpler knock control, based on voltage threshold, which can operate similarly to a standalone, but it really does remove the accuracy that this system offers. We will eventually have it figured out, but its not the same as losing accuracy, its just no longer calibrated to the new environment.

 

Removed because it was Irrelevant to this thread.

 

I agree.....I think alot of people are too quick to trash the stock ECU for a standalone. Not that thats a bad thing but I do think we still have yet to see the maximum power an Evo can make on the stock computer.

 

Removed because it was Irrelevant to this thread.

 

Tap on the exhaust manifold with a wrench, watch the knock guage register. But to think that combustion occurs inside chamber, exhaust valve opens, then the sound waves finally exit the dump valve to get picked up by the mic is pushing it

 

It's interesting... there is a lot of faith out there in both AEM's and the stock ECU's knock control. In fact I think many tuners solely rely on these systems to tune a car. IE not use det cans and their ears. Just logs and knock counts.

So... if a tuner is comfortable enough to trust these systems to tune with... why not make the tune quite aggressive and if their is a bad tank of gas, who cares as the knock control system will pick it up just fine.

 

The issue with the factory ECU isn't capability to deliver fuel and spark, that much is indisputable. The issue with the factory ECU is that unless one reads the appropriate forums almost on the daily basis (and not everyone has that kind of time), the learning curve is tedious and relatively steep. At the present time, I am dealing with trying to integrate Evoscan and Logworks with the factory ECU, with an LC-1, and I am wasting so much time with things that don't do what they should do that I am on the verge of trashing the lot.

IMO, the only reason to keep the factory ECU is OBDII concerns. Otherwise, I could have set up an Autronic about five times over in the time it's taken to read through countless posts, poke changes into XML files, etc., and I still don't have satisfaction. Where time is money, the factory ECU is a losing option.

Just a dose of reality from someone who didn't fall into this yesterday and is experiencing a steady stream of frustration from his (dwindling) desire to retain the factory ECU.