The term "horsepower" was coined by James Watt to help market his improved steam engine to customers who did not have existing steam engines but used horses instead.

Watt determined how much work a horse could do by watching them turn a mill wheel. The calculation he came up with is this:



Based on that formula, wouldnt it make more sense that ET would be a better basis to determine wheel HP than MPH? You know the weight of the car, the distance the weight was moved and the time it took to move that weight. Any math wizards out there that can shed some light on this subject?

I am also curious as to how much "aero" has to do with MPH versus weight.

 

man for you guys that seem to think that dyno numbers don't matter, you brag an awful lot about how "LOW" the buschur dyno reads. That no different than a shop bragging about how "HIGH" theirs reads......

 

There are more cars out there with big numbers that have been posted over the last few years, some never even made it to the track. Hell I have customers I am dieing to see run their cars at the track that haven't run them either. Non that have made the 900+ numbers.

With that said Import Junky, it is not directed right at Paul. It also isn't completely directed at 900+ hp cars. It applies to any number. Like 9sec9 said, 450 whp for example is getting him 10.50's while others can't get 11.50's with that power or more. I have no people skills if you think people skills are kissing *** and walking on egg shells. I call it like I see it, some people respect it, some are scared of it.

Paul what do you mean can you come to the shootout? It's open to the public. I'll pass on the beer and shots though, thanks.

As for our dyno being at Norwalk, our dyno is not portable. It's at our shop and there is a dyno competition the day before all of our events. 1,000+ people at our shop for it, the town is closed down and the streets are blocked off. Hell it's about the best thing going at the shootout.

 

Dyno's are nothing more than a tool that is used for tunning. The only place it counts is on the track.

 

At the speeds the 8 second cars are running with a box called an evo, aero is worth a ton...how would I know, I work in a wind tunnel and see it every day

 

I don't think stating facts about the numbers our dyno puts out is "bragging" how is it bragging? It is pointing out that 500 whp on our dyno is an accomplishment.

9sec240, you are the first guy to ever come up with that theory. Being as 60 foot time, traction, shifting speed all have a large effect on ET I'd say your theory is poor to say the least, probably why nobody else looks at ET to judge the HP of a car. Aero, sure that could have an effect on the MPH for sure. Your car for example is completely smoothed over in the front nice and flush, very clean job. I am sure that helps you with your MPH. The idea of using the clear lexan was awesome as it doesn't show up quite as much and keeps the car looking clean in the front. In the past with the tube car and the tube chassis Buick I raced we spent more time on aero for sure. Our black car has been done quickly too many times, maybe this year I'll have to take my head out of my butt and start actually trying harder with it.

 

It's funny that you bring that up, I was just thinking about this as most would know, or I would hope most would know that horse power is just a formula of Tq. Without TQ, there would be no "horse power" Horse power is just a magical number made up from TQ.

Good post man.

 

9sec240 is dead on. The only variable, which can still be evaluated, is the driver. If the mph indicates one horsepower level, but the et indicates something different, that would indicate that the car had more potential than the driver actually used during the pass. I use this method to indicate how much more is left in the car. I've always felt that the closer the calculated horsepower is to the et method and the mph method, the better the driver was. Just my own way of evaluation.

 

+1 that 9sec9.

For example here my Evo. I had 47 passes on my car this past year. 31 of them passes were on my stock 9 turbo... The car consistanly went 11.9's to 11.7's at 116 to 118mph with only 325whp on Daves dyno.

Later I changed out the 9 turbo for a BR 35r. I tuned the car on Daves dyno making only 467whp and again the car was very consistant. 11.1 to 10.9's at 125 to 129mph.

I guess you have to work on what you already have and with what is there. I did, and won the bracket class at the Subi vs Mitsu race. I was NOT willing to take out any serious weight. And everyone has to remember the RIGHT parts combination plays a HUGE roll

David great post man!

Buschur Racing FTMFW

 

I didn't see Davids post, but we both actually said the same thing. The driver variable can only be calculated by using both et and mph calculations. If they both calculate to the same whp, then the driver did his job. If the mph method shows a higher hp than the et method, then the driver didn't do his job, simply because the calculations show that the et was accomplished(or at least could have been accomplished) with less horsepower. Therefore, the driver didn't use everything that he was given. I do stand to be corrected, but that's the way I've always looked at it.

 

1200 Dyno numbers are for supras....running 8 second passes all day are for Evos

 

9sec9, I can assure you 100% that any car that weighs anywhere close to what ours does and is running 172 mph and only running 8's needs a driver mod and more. Using ET with the cars we are racing is worthless to figure out how much power the car is making. ALL of the cars are WAY off on ET. Also, running one glory run way out of the ballpark of any other pass isn't even excepted in any other organized racing, so we can throw out freak passes.

Here are some examples. My old tube car (yes, for the 10th time in this post) ran 7.81 at 175 mph. Car weighed about 1950 lbs. On our old Dynojet it made about 660 whp.

The twin turbo Buick I ran, made 1485 hp on Duttweillers dyno. Ran 7.5 at 175 mph, weighed 2350.

Our Conquest ran 8.5 at 156 mph, also made about 600 whp on our Dynojet, weighed in at 2650 pounds.

Start comparing those ET's/MPH to the 170+ trap speeds the EVO's are running at (in our case) 2600+ pounds but only running high 8's.

The 60' times from the EVO's suck. 1.40's aren't good for the power the cars make. The tube car ran 1.10 sixty foots, Buick ran 1.09, Conquest ran 1.30. All of those cars had auto transmissions, no lag/boost drop between gears. They were real drag cars, not what we are working with now with the EVO.

Trying to grab a gear with the tires spinning and the car banging off the revlimiter at 10,500 rpm isnt easy.

 

9sec9, very well put, I agree with your last post completely.

It is possible to put together a 10 second run in an EVO and get the ET/MPH to match, I will give that to 9sec240.

Try doing it in a 1,000 hp EVO though and from what everyone is proving so far it isn't possible.

This year I think the ET/MPH gap is going to tighten up. The dog boxes are going to help, the advances in suspension are going to help. Hell maybe we'll get smart and put an automatic trans in our EVO, that will fix the gap between ET/MPH and open a new can of worms I'd never do that though............

 

I wasn't sure how it would equate to the 'big number' cars, but don't tell Tony that my theory is flawed. He's been buying it. If the et's off, I just 'calculate' my way to blaming him. Thanks, DB..

 

Tony is actually doing an excellent job though. Hell he ran, what, 10.6 at 124 last week? That is probably about right, I'd guess it would calculate out like that to be about the same power with ET or MPH. He's an excellent driver and the car is doing what it should. 1.4 sixty foot times from a 450 whp car is getting the job done right. You gotta be proud of him.