OK I know before I even type this out it is going to start problems. I am simply going to make some points because I am getting fed up with all the crap being talked and speculated.

First of all. I can't be happier that we have a dyno that actually works and you can tune a car properly on it. I am also happier than hell that is reads "low" numbers. An EVO's HP is rated at the flywheel. 286 HP. On our dyno these cars put down around 220 whp. Consider the fact they have to spin 4 axles, 4 rotors, 4 tires/wheels, transmission, transfer case and a rear differential I'd say that 220 whp is a realistic number. Load the same car on another brand dyno and you end up seeing the cars lay down 260-270 whp stock. Not correct. A year or so ago I posted a portion of an article from the designer/originator of the Dynojet and how he designed it. He flat out admitted to altering the software to match that of an engine dyno and calibrated it to like a 1984 Yamaha V Max. There is no arguement there to be had, it's fact, the guy put it in two magazine the same month.

Yes, it's nice to have that huge number. I get caught up in it from time-to-time and haul one of our cars off to a Dynojet to put up a number. For example, our black car was putting down around 730 whp on our Mustang Dyno, we took it to a Dynojet and put down 903 whp. We never went back after that day. Our black car is now making 875 whp on our dyno and currently holds the MPH record at 172.74 mph.

If you have let's say for example, 1,000 whp and your car is running ET/MPH that don't add up, then who gives a darn what the dyno says? If you add another 70 whp to that number (for example) how does that equate to now having a car that is going to set some type of record? Let me answer, it doesn't.

Our black car, contrary to what some have stated is not all that light. The last time it was on the scales it weighed in at 2790 with my brother in it. We did not weigh it towards the end of last year. The car still has the steel roof, sunroof, complete untouched firewall, untouched A-pillars/B-pillars. Steel gutted doors. The floor and rockers are also intact. Stock steel driveshaft. Stage V axles etc. We did a quick cut up job on the car, not nearly the effort we should have put into it and we've raced it, alot. I am not making excuses, I don't need any, we hold the MPH record, so be clear I am just making points for everyone to read and consider. The car, I am sure, is not under 2650 with Daniel in it, there is too much of it left. It has trapped 172 MPH 3 times. The car only puts out 875 whp on our dyno. Best ET, 8.88.

Let's move on. My RS, on our dyno last year it put down 642 whp. That is 360 whp LESS than 1,000 whp. My car has NOTHING cut out of it, NOTHING. It has two holes I had to drill in it, both of them to mount something which nearly broke my heart. Full factory interior, full factory dash, carpet, front and rear seats, head liner, Double DIN TV, 6 speakers, heater, fan, heater controls etc. The car has the stock sized Giro Disc rotors, factory calipers. The air bags are in the car, the door beams are in the car. I run our standard 3" V band exhaust on the car. This IS a legit street car that I actually drive, take out to diner, take my kids to school in. I put a set of DOT Hoosier tires on it and the car on a poorly prepped track ran 9.65 at 151 mph. Hmmm, not too bad for 642 whp in a real street car. (forget about what it's getting ready to run

I see other cars that have 900+ whp that can't even get close to 160 mph and are stripped down to nothing, gutted, no exhaust and running slicks. Adding another 70 whp to a car like this sure isn't going to get it to record setting levels.

There is more to getting a car to set a record than some inflated dyno number.

Look at Curt Brown for an example. His car made 640 on our dyno, he built it to set records, stripped it down and made it light. The car also ran 9.33 at 153 mph on a GT35r! That's how you get the job done. No excuses, proper set up, a killer driver and the right combination. I didn't see him throwing a bigger turbo on each week to go faster, he knew what I know and some others know. You WORK a combination to perfection. That's how you set records.

Speaking of Curt, he was at our shop today with his latest project. He has a 1994 AWD Talon. He has a 16g turbo on it, the car made 410 whp on that little turbo. He is planning on running 9.90's like this. Nice car, not just a gutted-cut up POS>

I realize this thread can turn into a huge pissing match. That's really not my intentions. As they say, if the shoe fits, wear it. If it fits rather than argueing about it maybe re-thinking some poor choices is more inline.

Maybe I'm wrong and AMS will lose the ET record and we'll lose the MPH record this year to a 1200 whp EVO that's never done anything in the past, just some guy who pops up out of nowhere and makes us both look like dumb asses.............I doubt it though.

I have three goals for myself this year. One is to get my TT license with NASA so I can compete at the Nationals road racing. Two is for my RS, running a "35r" of some sort to make a bunch of larger turbo'd cars look really stupid. Third, to have our black car be the quickest/fastest EVO on gasoline.

Fire in the hole.

 

Not sure what to take of this...

I think it needs to be settled by having both of these 1000+whp cars dynoed on YOUR dyno to lay this to rest? Only then will people get a clue...

Cheers-
E

 

nice post Dave, and I couldn't agree more .

 

Just Because Al made some more horsepower is no reason to go and talk like this about him. I thought you guys were friends, what happened? You afraid that al is going to beat you?

 

Well said...
You can't fool a track .Good luck in your quest this year!

 

Al is my friend. He isn't talking much about breaking 180 mph or the ET record though He has also dyno'd on our dyno, he made more than we did at the dyno competition last year, which I think was around 870 at the time.

wicked E, I think you missed my point. My point is the dyno numbers don't mean much.

 

Time will tell, let's see what these cars do when they go down the track this season!

 

you just spoke my mind. this is how i feel when i read some of these threads with guys getting crazy hp on any given dyno but still can't drive it.

to be honest with you david, i just justify this kind of stuff as being "to each his own, whatever makes them happy! i guess some guys prefer measuring there ***** with a centimeter ruler just to inflate the number, while the rest of us are more focus on just making every inch count"

 

I agree with some of what your saying David. Whats made on a DynoJet is whats made. DynoJets don't lie. Getting a car to the track running the time takes hard work and dedication which i feel AMS/You/AL/ and me plus many many others have. It would be different if i did not do anything with my #s but i really feel me and my team are doing everything possible to hit our goals at the track.

But what does it matter if someone makes lots of power? Who cares its all in good fun. The parts have to come from somewhere.

Dynos are tools and thats what they are meant to be used for. I really feel like if people want to have fun with them and make lots of power with them there is nothing wrong with that.

 

+1 - Very well said!!

David - I don't always agree with your strategy on how you provide your opinion & your responses to some posts, but I always truly appreciate your honestly & passion for your craft.

In fact, I always look forward to reading your threads & have learned quite a lot.

Best of luck this year on reaching your goals this year.

Thanks-Big Boost

 

It's rather odd ifarted but I agree with what you just said. Like I said, I have hauled our cars to the Dynojet on two occasions, just for a number. I'm sure we'll do it again.

I hope you see my point too. A big over-inflated numbers means nothing if the car is way off the mark.

 

Gotcha!! Point taken. I had to read it twice to find the hidden meaning. I couldn't agree more with what you're saying.

I guess you can also so that ET records can be viewed the same way... Correct me if I'm wrong here...

An 8 second pass at 6500 feet is a lot different than an 8 second pass at sea level. How do you distinguish between who gets the record? Track conditions, elevation, track prep, wind conditions, weather conditions,etc. etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: if you're trying to say that dyno records are pointless, then so are track times as well or maybe I'm just an idiot and track records are a completely different ball park. Wouldn't be the first time I was called an idiot if that's the case...

Cheers-
E

 

Sure i agree with what you are saying
Bushcur Racing and AMS keep pushing the envelope which in turns keeps little guys like me worked up and motivated to try and catch up

The HP#s are fun but the track #s is what make it worthwhile. I feel this year all this High Hp cars will make some good track #s

 

To be honest I actually agree with David for once, we have a Dynocom Dyno and our race car reads 976 whp on it and on the Dynojet we had to go to when our machine was down and waiting for a sensor our car made 1189. Now I know the Dynojet was wrong seeing our car allways ran consistant 9.01 at 152 mph at 3425 weight with drive and all the math says it should be around 950, even with a 50mph tail wind our car would never runt the trap speed that 1180 plus should pull.

 

big boost, I am working on my "methods" of posting. I have a new way of doing things as I am tired of fighting, too many years of it and I am working on it.

wickedE, actually I don't agree. Maybe in a naturally aspirated engine the elevation makes a big difference but I have not found it to be true to a large extent with turbos. For example. My old tube chassis car. We had been running 7.9's-8.0's with the car here and on the east coast at sea level. Well we went to Colorado, mile high to run. We were having some "issues" with the car. Well some dumb *** who was in a hurry with the car put the pistons in backwards, so the intake reliefs were on the exhaust side and exhaust (obviously) on the intake side. (BTW, I was the dumb ***). We pulled the head off in the pits, knowing the car was hurt. No ring compressor. Ted (my crew chief) and I managed to spin the pistons around in the bore without taking them out to get them lined up right. A spectator went to a local dealership and got me a stock head gasket. We put it back together, when we cranked it we knew it was junk, no compression. A compression check showed no cylinder over 90 psi. We decided to see if we could get it to start and filled it with starting fluid so it would even fire, to our luck it started with a can of starting fluid. I then rev'd the crap out of it hoping some heat and the valves slamming against the seats would help to straighten them out. It worked. Compression still sucked but it would atleast start. We won the Pro Import Class and ran an 8.2 there. Moral of the story is, turbos/nitrous aren't effected as much at elevation. Besides that, nobody with an EVO is running for a record 8 second pass at high elevation.