this is what i would liek to know also, are the tuners that are running big boost on straight pump monitoring egt's?

 

Although the 4G63 has been in the USA since '89...

500 WHP on a chassis dyno with an AWD 4G63 was done ~5 years ago in the USA though.

 

There is no single answer for your question on how this is all of a sudden possible.

I was "forced" into learning to tune a stand alone in about 2003. This is when one of my employees who I had doing it moved on. Biggest problem for me wasn't the tuning aspect it was learning now to even use a computer, that I had no clue about. It was a very rapid/steep learning curve. We were also plaqued with multiple problems that kept holding us back with the AEM EMS. Overtime we figured many of them out and reported the others enough times to get them to figure out the rest of them. Once that crap was finally sorted out the power levels started climbing quickly around here.

In 2007 at the spring shootout we broke 500 whp for the first time on pump gas with Trent's car on 93 octane, in front of about 100 people. He ran 10.6 at 135 mph on that tune.

The tuning is of course important but I truly believe the combination of parts is just as important. If you have junk parts on your car and parts that aren't playing well together no amount of "good tuning" is going to help you set a record on pump gas or rocket fuel for that matter.

I see a lot of different combinations come through our shop. I am the tuner, I want every single car to leave here running as well as I can make it run and making the most power I can have it make, safely. By doing this, regardless of the parts the car has, the owner is going to send his friends here for tuning and so on and so on. My point is I don't hold back on tuning a car just because it isn't set up with all of our parts or parts I recommend.

I have paid very very little attention to anything that has happened in Japan or the UK. I don't care what they are doing. I never heard of Mark S. until a few months or so ago when he was brought up by crcain. First of all most of the HP numbers coming out of the UK are in ratings we don't even use. Second the fuel I always heard was 98 octane which had no meaning to me comparing it to our 93 octane. Last, the only dyno numbers that mean anything to me are the ones that my dyno reads out at the end of a tune. The rest are just numbers. Show me some track times, show me some mileage put on a pump gas car running 30+ psi and show me a happy owner, then I'll be impressed.

 

i think you are seeing lots of the good big names in the business sharing information and pushing each other...

and now that the car has been out for awhile, more advancements are being made...

When dave told me the power he was making on pump, i was blown away. We were impressed when we made 499.7whp on pump gas on the stock ecu last august on our shop car..... and then he starts making over 500 repeatedly with aem and well packaged cars....

AMS, BR, and many others continue to push themselves and others to continue to further our knowledge and understanding of these cars.

cheers

cb

 

edit

 

I hate to use Mark as an example again because he is not big into forums and he probably isn't too keen on me blabbing this and that about him but he is my tuner and I really respect his work.

Here is an example from a quick search I did.... if you look at this thread below from 2005, this is results from a dyno day they did in the UK. If you notice the second car down, "MCJ", this was mapped by Mark and he built the engine with his own custom stroker kit. I believe it was on UK pump fuel, and as you see... the boost was 2.4 bar!

http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=74357

The atw figure was 472. I can promise you the UK Dyno Dynamics are setup to read lower than a Mustang. If you look at that same thread, you will notice down the list, an FQ-300 makes 225 atw. So I'd make a guess that 472 would be well over 500 on a Mustang.

Of course the caveat is the comparison of 93 PON to 98 RON. Both are basically equivalent but you just don't know which is better. Hard to say.

By the way that MCJ Evo 7 did the Gumball Rally a few years ago, consuming pump fuel all over the world. It held up perfect.

 

I personally believe the lack of pump gas power a year or so ago and beyond here on EvoM is simply because tuners were thinking the motor was knocking when it wasn't. That is the only plausible explanation I can come up given my rudimentary understanding of tuning. Of course this hinges on the fact the parts were good enough back then, which I believe they were.

 

I don't think anyone can promise that the UK DD dyno reads lower than a Mustang, not to argue. A stock EVO8 on our Mustang would put down about 200-210 whp tops. Some down in the 190 range.

I put a post up on our website in the forums about the HP ratings used in the UK and how to convert them to what we use here. I found the power would be lower with the UK ratings than with ours using the conversions. If anyone wants a link I can go find it and post it.

I am sure Mark is a great tuner and if he's been tuning stand alones since 1995 he has about 8 years on me, he should be very good with that much experience, no doubt.

Me, I just get lucky

 

Dave your obviously an incredible tuner that is undoubtable at this point.

Not to mention that little business you also do building engines.

 

I am impressed that Buschur Racing is consistent and I never read of any complaints from his customers.

 

I have noticed that we have more refined parts to go along with better tuning. I have been around Evos since March 2003 and I am amazed how far they have come.

 

Very True....I got my Evo over a year and a half ago. Im glad I waited till now to start buying parts...cams,ICs ect. have came a long way.

 

That is the reason.

Before, 98% of tuners were maybe running 24-25psi on pump gas, now the envelope is being pushed to 30+psi on pump gas with much lower timing. They have been doing this in the UK for a while now. I remember back in my DSM days, a guy went insanely fast and claimed to be running 30psi on pump... he got reamed out by everyone saying he was a liar, blah blah, .

 

more compressed air + more gas + more boost + advance timing + change afr = bigger exposion = more power every time

simple as that

 

Ok yes but the OP wasn't asking for an over simplified and slightly innaccurate single sentence explanation of how to make power in general in a forced induction application. The question was considerably different.