Innovate Db AFR gauge issues
May 10, 2008, 10:51 PM
#1
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Innovate Db AFR gauge issues
I just installed my Innovate DB AFR gauge and its not working properly it reads 21.3 and goes down to 16 or so under wot. Every once in a while it reads properly for a few secs then returns to not working state.. In my logworks it reads fine all the time, and I grounded it at the same place my LC-1 is grounded ( behind the glove box). Has any else had this problem? I'm powering my LC-1 at the cigarette lighter, and I have a Sun voltage stabilizer (unplugged it but no difference).
May 11, 2008, 08:31 AM
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I have this exact same setup and it works just fine. I would suggest doing a recalibration. Do the calibration that is done from the initial setup and that should fix everything.
May 11, 2008, 06:38 PM
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Make sure you let the car sit for a while or take the sensor out when you recalibrate. I had calibrated my LC-1 after letting the car sit for about an hour with the sensor still in the exhaust and it read slightly richer than it really was. I took it out and recalibrated and it was spot on with what it was tuned to.
May 12, 2008, 10:03 PM
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You can calibrate it without it being hot? I work in an instrument shop and every oxygen analyzer we work on has a heater to heat it to some rediculous temperature before we calibrate it. I forget the exact number but I assume it's similar to any other cell. The cell has to be hot to read correctly
May 13, 2008, 08:50 AM
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I'm following the instructions step by step,,,, There's no ref. for lighting a torch to this thing. The last uego I installed was true 1-2-3 install. I don't see what's wrong here.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...C-1_Manual.pdf
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...Quickstart.pdf
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support.php
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...C-1_Manual.pdf
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...Quickstart.pdf
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support.php
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Jun 2, 2008, 07:22 PM
#8
i think im having the same exact problem. i read the instructions on doing the free air calibration but i had my wideband installed so im not sure where everything is that was installed. can i simply disconnect the sensor from the exhaust with the car off and then just turn my acc on with the key to give the gauge power????
Jun 2, 2008, 09:02 PM
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i just figgled around with the wires...started the car and the reading started jumping from 7.5------> 22.x (as opposed to previously reading only 15.1 at all times). took the sensor out, recalibrated and vroooom!!! abra kadabra!! and there is it sitting reading perfectly!!! 
Jun 3, 2008, 05:10 AM
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This is from the innovate web site forum.
Ground offsets 101
Hi,
A lot of people have problems understanding correct grounding and how it effects AFR to voltage conversion of the analog outs of an LC-1.
Lets first look at the basics of what is going on there electrically:
Think of Voltage as the pressure in a line (measured in Volts, symbol V).
Different to pressure though, there is no “absolute” Voltage. Voltage can only be measured as “pressure” difference between 2 points.
Current is the amount of flow of electrons, like gallons per minute in a water line. Current is measured in Amperes or amps (symbol I).
When water flows through a line, there’s a pressure loss along the line because the of the friction of water against the pipe walls and other restriction. Same goes for electrical current. Everything that conducts electricity has a resistance to that current flow and therefore causes a Voltage (pressure) loss along that conductor. The resistance is measured in Ohms (symbol R).
The Voltage (pressure loss) along a conductor follows Ohms law:
V = R * I (Voltage loss is resistance times current).
Different to a home plumbing system, the electrical current runs closed loop. What goes out of the + side must come back on the ground (-) side.
This “return” current is what creates ground offsets.
When the engine is running, the alternator acts as “pump” for the electrons. The battery is then just an electrical power consumer, like everything else. The “head” side of the alternator is its B+ terminal. The “suction” side of the alternator is the body of the alternator itself, that usually has good contact with the engine block.
All the current for all electrical systems in the car has to flow through the ground strap of the engine. If for example the total electrical current load of the car is 10A, these 10A have to flow through the frame and then through the ground strap back to the alternator/engine block.
If there is electrical resistance in that path, as there always is, a voltage loss is created along that path. For example if the path resistance is 0.1 Ohms, at 10A a voltage loss of 1 Volt is created. This means that the frame sits at +1V when measured against the engine block (remember, voltages can only be measured as difference between 2 points).
Now assume the ECU is grounded to the engine block, but your LC-1s system/analog out ground is grounded to the frame. The LC-1 measures its output voltage referenced to its “ground”, as that is the only zero reference it has. The ECU measures its O2 input voltage against a different zero reference, namely the engine block. As the LC-1’s zero reference sits 1V higher than the ECU reference, the ECU will read 2V on it’s input. Of course, you could compensate by programming the LC-1, but that is not a very good solution because:
a) The LC-1 cannot output what it regards as “negative” voltages. It references everything to its ground, and therefore 0V is at low as it can go. 0 Volt would even then be read as 1V by the ECU/datalogger/display.
b) The 1V ground offset as described in the above example depends on the current in the return path. With a 0.1 Ohm resistance in the return path and 10A electrical current you will have 1V. With 20A current you would have 2V. With 2A electrical current you would have an offset of only 0.2V.
c) The current load in a car, and therefore in the return path, can change very dramatically from 2-3 Amps to 50-100 Amps in milliseconds due to ignition systems, fans, a/c clutch and so on. These changing currents will create corresponding changing ground offsets which then is often wrongly attributed to "noisy analog outs". This "noise" can often be seen when displays intended for NBO2 sensors are used. On LED instruments, multiple LEDs will light up at the same time.
A better way is to ground the LC-1 to the same reference point where the receiver of the data, wether its ECU, datalogger or display instrument is grounded. This way all devices are “on the same page” and ground differentials somewhere else have no effect.
This is also the reason the LC-1 has different grounds for heater (large current) and system/analog out ground. The potential ground offsets created by the heater current when they are connected together can create its own problems. By connecting the heater ground to the same grounding metal as the rest you will minimize that effect. Therefore the best way is to ground the LC-1’s heater to the same area as the other grounds, but on a seperate bolt/lug. The contact points of bolts and lugs can account for 75-80% of the resistance of the connection and can change dramatically when corrosion sets in.
Regards,
Klaus
Ground offsets 101
Hi,
A lot of people have problems understanding correct grounding and how it effects AFR to voltage conversion of the analog outs of an LC-1.
Lets first look at the basics of what is going on there electrically:
Think of Voltage as the pressure in a line (measured in Volts, symbol V).
Different to pressure though, there is no “absolute” Voltage. Voltage can only be measured as “pressure” difference between 2 points.
Current is the amount of flow of electrons, like gallons per minute in a water line. Current is measured in Amperes or amps (symbol I).
When water flows through a line, there’s a pressure loss along the line because the of the friction of water against the pipe walls and other restriction. Same goes for electrical current. Everything that conducts electricity has a resistance to that current flow and therefore causes a Voltage (pressure) loss along that conductor. The resistance is measured in Ohms (symbol R).
The Voltage (pressure loss) along a conductor follows Ohms law:
V = R * I (Voltage loss is resistance times current).
Different to a home plumbing system, the electrical current runs closed loop. What goes out of the + side must come back on the ground (-) side.
This “return” current is what creates ground offsets.
When the engine is running, the alternator acts as “pump” for the electrons. The battery is then just an electrical power consumer, like everything else. The “head” side of the alternator is its B+ terminal. The “suction” side of the alternator is the body of the alternator itself, that usually has good contact with the engine block.
All the current for all electrical systems in the car has to flow through the ground strap of the engine. If for example the total electrical current load of the car is 10A, these 10A have to flow through the frame and then through the ground strap back to the alternator/engine block.
If there is electrical resistance in that path, as there always is, a voltage loss is created along that path. For example if the path resistance is 0.1 Ohms, at 10A a voltage loss of 1 Volt is created. This means that the frame sits at +1V when measured against the engine block (remember, voltages can only be measured as difference between 2 points).
Now assume the ECU is grounded to the engine block, but your LC-1s system/analog out ground is grounded to the frame. The LC-1 measures its output voltage referenced to its “ground”, as that is the only zero reference it has. The ECU measures its O2 input voltage against a different zero reference, namely the engine block. As the LC-1’s zero reference sits 1V higher than the ECU reference, the ECU will read 2V on it’s input. Of course, you could compensate by programming the LC-1, but that is not a very good solution because:
a) The LC-1 cannot output what it regards as “negative” voltages. It references everything to its ground, and therefore 0V is at low as it can go. 0 Volt would even then be read as 1V by the ECU/datalogger/display.
b) The 1V ground offset as described in the above example depends on the current in the return path. With a 0.1 Ohm resistance in the return path and 10A electrical current you will have 1V. With 20A current you would have 2V. With 2A electrical current you would have an offset of only 0.2V.
c) The current load in a car, and therefore in the return path, can change very dramatically from 2-3 Amps to 50-100 Amps in milliseconds due to ignition systems, fans, a/c clutch and so on. These changing currents will create corresponding changing ground offsets which then is often wrongly attributed to "noisy analog outs". This "noise" can often be seen when displays intended for NBO2 sensors are used. On LED instruments, multiple LEDs will light up at the same time.
A better way is to ground the LC-1 to the same reference point where the receiver of the data, wether its ECU, datalogger or display instrument is grounded. This way all devices are “on the same page” and ground differentials somewhere else have no effect.
This is also the reason the LC-1 has different grounds for heater (large current) and system/analog out ground. The potential ground offsets created by the heater current when they are connected together can create its own problems. By connecting the heater ground to the same grounding metal as the rest you will minimize that effect. Therefore the best way is to ground the LC-1’s heater to the same area as the other grounds, but on a seperate bolt/lug. The contact points of bolts and lugs can account for 75-80% of the resistance of the connection and can change dramatically when corrosion sets in.
Regards,
Klaus
Jun 3, 2008, 06:31 AM
#13
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you need to take the sensor out of the exhaust and please the red button a coupla times while the sensor is out and your ignition is on (engine off)
goodluck
Jun 3, 2008, 06:39 AM
#14
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I also had the same problem when I had stupidedly pushed the recalibrate button on the software program with the car running and the sensor installed. After redoing the initial calibration where I had removed the sensor and LC-1 from the downpipe and then recalibrated it now works perfectly.
Jun 3, 2008, 09:45 AM
#15
alright well I know the red button is still in the box and was never installed by the shop I took it too. Anyone care to help me figure out what to do? Could I simply pull the sensor out and then just turn the key giving it power? Or do I need to put the red button thinger on. Keep in mind the gauge is fully installed(minus red button) and seems to be working minus the reading being off.