The fact remains that two turbos have failed. The fourth turbo on the car, as well as the first, have been performing flawlessly much longer than the two FP turbos.

A (third party) reputable shop has found no evidence that a foreign object entered the exhaust stream. Remember, this shop had nothing to gain or lose if the turbo died on its own or from an exterior cause. Nothing was found in either turbo or stuck at the cat to support the "foreign object" theory.

After the second turbo failure, the OP brings this to the manufacturer's attention. FP offers a monetary settlement, then decides they no longer want to lose money on this customer and only offer to rebuild one turbo of two that failed. They blame this failure on a TSB that, upon inspection, did not apply to the OP's situation as the screen was in place and clean.

So, now the OP has two dead turbos. The explanations offered for their death are shakey, at best.

To me, it sounds like the OP wanted to strike FP where it hurt since he was basically blown off and screwed out of nearly $5000 in the end. (once you add up all the costs of the FP Turbo failures).

I think he succeeded. I bet Blouch is working overtime filling all the new Dom 3 orders.

 

A) I was originally responding to Robert's comment and the info he decided to omit.
B) This has EVERYTHING to do with customer service. Hopefully you'll be treated better than the OP.

 

And nothing was done to prove that it WASN'T a foreign object. Does anyone really know the reputation of this XX Tuning shop? How do you know that they aren't just saying that they didn't find anything? And how do you know they went to the proper measures to come to the conclusion 100% that nothing entered the path of the turbine? They pulled the cat and shook it and nothing came out? Come on now, you can't be 100% sure.

If they had offered a monetary settlement in the amount of the 2nd turbo and renegged, that's a different issue altogether. Fact is, FP can't be held accountable for extraneous costs from modding a car. Wait until Blouch or whoever says they do starts getting calls from angry people who blew their motor wanting refunds for their engines how quickly they change their tune.

 

What reason would XX have to hide the ultimate failure of the turbo? How would this benefit them. There needs to be a motive if you are going to accuse them of "falsifying evidence."

Robert DID offer a monetary settlement. Then he took it back. The OP requested ONLY the refund of the purchase price of the items purchased from FP. NONE of the related towing, install/teardown, rental and other fees were requested.

I love how you try and put words into both my, and the OP's mouths. Too bad were not dumb enough to fall for it. I am basing my argument on facts. You are basing everying on circumstantial "evidence" you gleam from somewhere I'll stay away from.

 

Ok I don't know what you mean by "fall for it".. but ok. Anyways, FP said they'd compensate him for the turbo that failed that was PROVED TO NOT BE HIS FAULT. They can't prove anything about the first turbo, so they can't honor warranty. It's simple.

 

Besides, when you preface your whole case with "I'm an elite moderator on the largest STI site in the world.. blah blah blah, im going to tell everyone, blah blah blah" it sends a message of intimidation, explicit or not.

 

Well,

I have been a member of this forum for a few years now. I mostly lurk and read for my two friends who own evos. I have ripped apart both my sti and my buddies evos doing pretty much every bolt on possible.

I also posted on iwsti in the original thread, as I obviously have more reason to frequent that site more than this. Before I go any further though...I love both cars and would own both if I could. So I am not loving the sti more than evo...they both have their strong points and weaknesses imo.

After reading the other thread I informed both of my evo buddes about the "FP situation" One of them is a lawyer and the other a business owner...all three of us also own and admin another online import forum. They read the thread and came back with most of the same conclusions as you guys in this thread. I agree with the facts about the apples to oranges comparison of the subaru fp turbos and the evo fp turbos. Our oiling systems are very different and I think it's safe to say that the evo system is more efficient or rather less prone to failure.
Obviously none of us can comment on the issues that made the turbos fail. FP can comment and xxtuning who did the work can make their own conclusions. I believe that fp turbos can fail, but with ther track record of success...I don't believe that it happens very often. Two turbos failing in a row is possible, however unlikely...its possible.

I am not concerned with this as much as I am about their response. I think we can all agree that FP followed it's policies. I can see how it may look like and be perceived as though the OP was threatening FP, or you could view it as giving FP a heads up that what ever transpired would be going online for better or worse. I think its all how you want to see it really. Either way, FP was presented with an opportunity to go above and beyond. I think that's the real issue here. All of us are so used to Vendors and tuners bending over backwards and giving in to us. I'm not saying its a bad thing that they do, but well...I think we can all say that we have seen a vendor do alot more than what policy dictates. That's ususally what prompts us to make these threads about "amazing service" and "above and beyond." FP had a pretty good name in the subaru community...an hopefully they will prevail in the end, but they certainly missed a great chance to boost or at least maintain their sales.

It's no mysery that most of the people who mod their cars frequent certain forums. IWSTI/Nasioc for the subie owners and evom.net for the evo guys. I think its safe to say that a majority of their sales come from forum members. Word of mouth is the best advertising right? Aren't member journals and individual posts just another form of word of mouth?

It's no wonder all these other members started coming out of the woodwork with their fp problems and complaints. They want to feel like part of the team I guess. I totally agree that you should let a company's work speak for itself....unfortunately it's not that simple.

For instance, I know a lot on this board are familiar with Road Race engineering...and if you're not...perform a search. My bro's evo was tuned there roughly a month and a half ago. Great products/workmanship are one thing which they have, but their customer service and support is what really puts them over the top imo. I am going to try and get my subie tuned there.

Most of us are forced to buy our parts via the internet/mailorder. We want all the confidence in the world that the vendor will be there for us should something go wrong. I'm not buying FP products now, but not becaue there is anything wrong with their turbos....mostly because I want that guy who is willing to go above and beyond for me as is common among most of the vendors I deal with. That's just my preference though. FP was very willing to do everything within it's policies. Not much else though. Pardon me, but I don't want ordinary...I want outstanding. Everyone on these forums would love if their tuner/vendor/mechanic was as excited about their car as they are. No matter how impressive the reputation and past of FP, this overshadows it all for me.

And you can flame me and say I'm dumb for allowing the bad experience of one customer to influence my decisions, but one is enough for me. This goes back to their thought on what's good for their business vs what's good for the customer. Call me crazy for saying this, but if they had just decided to take back both turbos and give him his cash for them, then I think we would be singing a different song about how kick *** they are and they care so much about the customer that they put it before their own company....which would actually be half true because they would have hopefully recognized the benefits of a good review vs what has transpired here.

I'm personally torn on the whole thing about who was right or wrong, but I think FP should have been smarter and tried a little more as at least a show of good faith/how much they really care about us....their customers. Now they just missed out on probably tens of thousands of dollars. Hopefully they can overcome this whole thing in the subaru world....I know it might have little impact on everyone else. But I find it hard to believe that FP only wants to provide turbos to everyone but subarus. They strike me as the type of people who want to be the biggest the best all around. They have a lot of the products, now go that extra mile. I said it in the IWSTI thread..."Mission First, People Always" Recipe for success.


That's just my take on this whole thing. I really want to hear about other members who have had problems with FP and how it was handled and how quickly it was handled. To think this is an isolated incident would be foolish assumption...this just might be the worst one thus far. Anyway...good luck to all persons involved.

-Ryan

 

You could either look at it that way, or that FP had a perfect sounding board to show a large turbo buying community just how great they can rat a customer when things don't work perfectly.

 

Then why did he write this?


"I will settle for a refund on the FP 20G, FP Green, and FP STi Oil Supply Line. I will also keep my experience off the forum since you are willing to go the extra mile for me."

Extortion?


I also find it funny how he insists that there was no foreign object because he didn't find any but yet he doesn't show a picture of the missing fin. If the fin don't fit you must acquit.

 

I guess we're at a stalemate then, eh? We'll have to agree to disagree on this topic. You feel that the OP is justified in asking $$$ for both turbos and a feed line, while I feel he is only entitled to a repaired turbo and he should be happy about it for mentioning his "Elite moderator" status in such a passive aggressive way.

 

again, you can take that how you want to.

it could mean two things.

1. extortion

2. telling them that if they do the right thing, and they don't want this posted...he is willing to do that. A very fine line between scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

hmmm...still pressure on fp either way. Sometimes added pressure is a good thing when dealing with a business. People write letters that make it into the newspaper all the time about poor service. Usually realizing that some pressure will help speed along the proccess. I wish I could definitively say that this was his intent, but obviously I can't. I will say that I have been on that forum a long time as well and he is a pretty constructive and level headed guy. One of those people who is more a "part of the solution" vs being "part of the problem."

I think he lost the fin while on the road, thats what it says in his first post suggest anyway....safe to say it's probably in a gutter somewhere right now.

-Ryan

 

Who dragged all of these Subie guys with 4 posts into this thread anyway? Was it the O.P.? It almost seems like a vigilante lynching! Vendor bashing is forbidden under EvoM forum rules. And this is a not so subtle, well-orchestrated, example of vendor bashing.

The problem turbo is not an Evo Turbo. The true cause of the turbo's failure is debatable. The Newbies attacking the vendor obviously have an axe to grind. Why not return this shlock to the venue where it belongs?

 

There should be a test for customers before a reputable vendor will sell them a high performance product like a FP turbocharger.

If the customer says I am looking for a warranty policy that says "we will warranty your turbo for free and stand behind it like we have for about 15 years even if, when we inspect your turbo, it was damaged by you running it low on oil pressure..." or " we will warranty a turbo even after you've fed gravel down the intake", or "sure, we have a free return for all your money back after two years of use, and you don't have to send back the turbo, just keep it and do whatever you want with it" then it's a good business practice NOT to sell him a turbo...

Unfortunately, there are more and more of those guys around, and it looks like alot of them buy Subarus.

What is even more amazing is how many nut swingers the OP in the Subie thread got to come over here and pile on. That just shows the mindset and intentions to try to screw a business reputation rather than deal in good faith with the fact that your turbo ingested something. That's too bad, but it's sure not FP's fault. To expect a business to give you your money back after you destroy a turbo just because you're a board mod somewhere is the height of hubris.

 

You know, this sort of incident really does act as a good test/filter/interview of sorts for potential customers. The people that a guy like this scares off never make power anyway. They end up driving around "on a safe rich toon" for years waiting for the next holy grail part that is supposed to turn them into a hero and eventually sell off their car without ever finishing what they set out to do in the first place. If I had to guess, I'd say there is a good number of Subaru guys that get manicures more often than they work on their cars, much less understand how to make power. I'll take some heat for that comment I am sure, but for some reason the Subaru guys have the most stupid *** questions and problems that I have ever heard (and I have been doing this a LONG TIME) and are always looking to blame somebody. There is a core of serious STI guys out there, and that is why we offer product. The posers can go fly a kite.

Some of you guys arent going to like my frank and politically incorrect attitude, and that is fine. FP does not equal Walmart.

 

He bought an STI...how much could be possibly know? haha jk

Greens are fine, like Warrtalon said there car specific.