Ted B

iTrader: (6)

For GSC S3, straight up.


No cams capable of much better peak hp are going to give the same low speed response as factory cams, especially not with an engine without variable cam timing. It's just a compromise one makes to get more hp.

You could try retarding the exhaust cam 1-2 degrees, which will make the idle more choppy and should improve spool time a bit. There isn't much else you can do.

detroit pistins

iTrader: (102)

Thanks!

jameswwt

Thank you very much Ted.

ace33joe

iTrader: (2)

It is good to see that Ted is still shedding light on newbie cam tuners.

I will be installing a set of Tomei Poncam type-R pretty soon, and from previous recommendation and results from this thread, the closest thing I can find is GSC S1:

GSC S1 for stock EVO 8 engine and stock turbo is recommended to set at:

0/0 and -2/-1

In my understanding, this is all about valve timing center line setting for optimizing power band to owner's taste.

Valve center line is

107 / 113 for GSC S1
105 / 115 for Tomei Poncam type-R

Then, GSC S1 0/0 corresponds to Tomei +2/+2
and -2/-1 corresponds to Tomei 0/+1

Is this correct?

Mine is 03 EVO 8 with TME turbo. I am interested in maximizing turbo output power (93 oct) and tolerable idle quality. (I guess not easy to get both, but trying)

Thanks!

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Not quite.

The GSC S1 is timed like the Tomei set at -1/-1.

If the GSC S1 were set at -2/-1, the Tomei would need to be set at -3/+2.

At 0/0, I like the timing of the GSC better than Tomei's timing.

ace33joe

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for your quick reply, Ted.

I should have considered that this valve center angle is referenced to crank angle, and cam adjustment needs to be doubled to match that.

So 105 -> 107 IN means -1 cam gear angle, 115 -> 113 EX means -1 cam angle.

If S1 is set at -2/-1, automatically it becomes from -1/-1 to -3/-2, but if we calculate center lines, S1 is now at 111 / 111,

105 -> 111 IN means -3 cam gear angle, 115 -> 111 EX means -2 cam angle (not +2?).

Is this correct?

Thanks again for your insight and help!

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Yes, that is correct. I just made a goof previously.

We always use cam degrees when speaking of lobe center lines, lobe separation angles, and cam gear settings. We use crank degrees when speaking of valve events.

ace33joe

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for your quick reply and enthusiastic help!

TurboM3

Lets take a crack at this one..

4G64 Block 4G63 Head
87mm Bore
94mm Billet crank
BC Pro Series Billet 156mm rods
CP pistons
Kelford 272 Cams
Full Ferrera Valvetrain
Full Cosworth bearing
ARP Everything
Fidanza Cam Gears.
T3 Precision 6766
AEM EMS
E85

FWIW, I already have the Cams timed and have found true zero. No need to factor in the -3.5* or so already dialed in.

I have played around with a few settings. Currently at 0,-4 and it feels amazing up to 7500 then knocks and power drops off.

With the cams straight up it makes crazy top-end power all the way to over 9000rpm but midrange and low-end are lethargic. Car makes North of 700-750whp. I drive the car a lot so I would like a bit more midrange to spool the turbo a bit faster but not kill my top-end. Hmmmmm Thanks for looking

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

The only things that matter:

For starters, the Kelford 272 set does not have enough effective duration to get the best power from this setup.


Was this done with a solid tappet installed?


That's because this setting creates too much overlap for best power. It's even a bit too aggressive for a smaller turbo 'rally' setup.

It will make more power with a cam set better suited for this application (e.g. GSC S3), and given the size of the turbo, with minimal (if any) noticeable spool penalty, primarily because the nominal decrease in low speed VE occurs in an rpm range where the turbo is unresponsive.

It will make more power with CNC head work, which can actually deliver an improvement in spool characteristics.

TurboM3

Thanks for the quick reply.

I degree'd the cams personally with a modified lifter, piston stop, degree wheel etc.

I will be getting a set of the GS3's in due time. However, in the mean time I am trying extract the best out of what I have.

What cam settings do you think will assist me in harnessing more power at 6500-9000rpm

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

The Kelford's intake closing point is too soon with its relatively short effective duration. The intake cam will need to be retarded for best power, and yes, that will soften spool.

03whitegsr

iTrader: (8)

All the theory in the world won't replace simply testing it out.

It might be an issue at the power level you are at (if you are using that 6766 to it's full extent anyway) to test it on the street, but I've been able to get consistent enough data from the virtual dyno programs to pick up power changes down to 2 crank degrees on cam timing. You'll also see the change in AFR. You are looking more for trend changes then absolute changes though. I try to do 4 pulls, 2 each direction down the road and then average all the runs together to get a good trendline plot.

Kronik

iTrader: (3)

Ted,

Thanks for all the help on this thread. I could definitely use some assistance here since I am getting some REALLY NASTY overlap noise from my new engine.

Crate Engine: 2.4l 4G64 with Evo 8 head

[Lifters:ITM 3G Lifters - 4G63]
[Bore Size:87mm (.020 Over 4G64)]
[4G63 Pistons:Weisco Racing Pistons]
[Target Compression Ratio:9.5 to 1]
[4G63 Racing Rods:Scat H Beam Rods w/ARP 2000's]
[Connecting Rod Length:Standard 150mm Lenth Rod (+0)]
[Crankshaft Stroke:100mm (Stock 4G64 Stroke)]
[Engine Bearings:ACL Tri Metal Engine Bearings]
[4G63 Lubrication:OEM Oil Pump w/ Balance Shaft Eminator - Included]
[Head Fasteners:ARP Head Studs - Included]
[4G63 Timing Belt:Gates Racing Timing Belt]
GSC S2 Cams

Currently just trying to break the motor in with the stock injectors and turbo. It will eventually have the CBRD-BBK-B, 1000 cc deatchworks injectors, Synaps BOV and IC piping, Turbo XS IC, Deatchwerks fuel pump, Aeromotive RRFPR, etc.

Trying to get my AEM cam gears dialed in. Right now we have them set at -3.75 / -3.75. Any suggestions?

gotpsi?

There should be one big post with all the recommendations in it.

I read through and may have missed it but I have a 2.3l w/fp red and kelford 272's on E85, the car is street driven and used for HPDE/TT aggressively.

I would like 2 recommendations to help me understand this better if you would.

What would help spool/low end, corner exit?

What would increase hp/tq at the top end for me 7500rpm?

I feel that depending on the track I may want to change this to help my lap times.

Thanks!