2 litre big turbo is a popular combination, but is it really enjoyable on the street?

How much do you end up sacrificing?

If someone slaps a 37R on a 2 litre evo, is the goal purely drag / top end? Wouldn't a smaller turbo and larger displacement be a better combo for a street car? At what point do you say, hey, I like corners, I like getting to boost early rather than later?

I'd love to ride in a Buschur 2 litre car to see how it felt. They must have absolute nuts top end pull. But I wonder if the lack of torque and low end response would be a bit of a downer in the corners.

What does lengthening the stroke beyond 88mm do in terms of 1/4 mile times? Yes you get more peak torque, but do you lose torque at higher rpms?

 

Wouldn't a smaller turbo and larger displacement be a better combo for a street car.


Yes think rally car.

 

this is a good thread, ive been trying for the past year or so to create the so called "ultimate street" set up. the only additional factor for me is that i live in a high elevation area (6500ft above sea level), so things are a bit different for me compared to everyone else.

for this reason, ive been really interested in the twin scroll designs as it seems like everyone that has done those kits are happy and report excellent response, those who are usually against it, have never ran such a set up and are usually basing their opinions on what they "think" would happen. this goes well with this thread as people say twin scroll kits offer better low end and midrange spool and reponse but lack power up top compared to their singlescroll counterparts. anyone care to comment on this?

 

Is there consistent evidence of a stroker usually making more peak torque, or rather peak torque sooner? I know strokers make good torque and sooner, but I am not under the impression that they always make more peak torque. The key difference is they make peak torque in a more useful part of the powerband (for the street) than a 2.0 with a big turbo.

I've ridden in a 620whp Buschur 2.3 37R car and its was pretty far from what I would want for anything with turns, let alone the street. MAYBE usable for certain sections of a really big, fast road course, IF you drive a certain style, but I think it would still be a poor choice for that due to how long the 37R takes to spool, combined with the reduced upper end due to the stroker. They kind of cancel each other's merits IMO.

Yes, I agree twin scroll is the best way to have a bigger turbo and maintain good transient response.

Otherwise, I think a 2.3 and Red on E85 or Meth is a killer street setup. Look at Fast Frank's 2.3 +Red+E85 setup and results.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=362803
That's exactly what he was aiming for, and he hit the nail on the head 100% IMO.

Single scroll look at Scorke's 2.3 3076.

For twin externally gated TS, EvoDan's TS3076, and his later TS 35R.

All those cars are torque monsters with huge midrange and are excellent big power street or road course setups for anything over a Green.

 

I thought my setup was pretty close to a great street car, 2.3 AMS with a 50 Trim,

501 whp and 465 torque on 93 octane and meth injection.

If I had to redo everything it would be the AMS 2.3RR and a nine turbo for just a street car ( made for street driving and turns ) not a highway monster! imagine that spool up! more torque than horsepower and a very fast spool up.... sounds like to much fun

 

I remember your setup (2.3/50trim) and powerband quite well. Very well setup fun streetcar. Anything bigger would be a step in wrong direction.

This could be a good thread but will likely turn ugly because everyone has an opinion that they think is right.

Here's my opinion from driving both 2.0 and 2.3 with everything from 14b-37r. yes I have driven 14b with 2.4 liter and 2.0 with 37r. and everything in between. 2.3/14b made full boost at 2100rpm. Yes it was fun but nothing past 5000rpm. But on to more usable advise.

STREET FUN IS ABOUT FAST SPOOL. Make no mistake about this observation. full 30psi must be before 4000-4200.

2.0 is not fun for daily with anything bigger than green.
2.3 is a blast with green. even more fun with red size turbo. anything bigger is fun at WOT only. bigger is okay if car is really light ~2700 or less

Opinions will vary depending on the definition of street car. If your definition of streetcar is a race car that can be driven on the street than 2.0 with 42r may be fun to you. Because all you really care about is what car feels like in boost. My definition stems from a low tolerance of race car like mods. Examples= clutches that are hard to modulate in traffic, clutches that make noises, loud exhausts, dash vibrations form urethane or hard mounts, and most important power bands that are only fun at WOT high RPM.

 

I drive slow or fast with no real in between. There are no hills or fun roads, so a big turboed car is fine for me here.

If I lived in the mountains a big turbo would probably suck!!

 

Some people want instant boost for the mountian pass near their house. Others want top end to scare the crap out of their self and friends.

Build what you like, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

I loved my 2G TSi AWD with a T28 that I auto-crossed every weekend as much as my T67 powered GS-T that got 32mpg and had a stupid amount of top end power.

 

very well said. To think about what you wrote my 35r on my 2.0 and stock head is only fun when im in the right gear and the right rpm. If i had to do it again i prob would have done a red with some e85 and maybe a 2.3. Stock turbo was fun but had no top end like i wanted but didnt like how fast it spooled cuz i dont want to always be in boost and drive the way the car wants to be driven. But now i can save gas when im not in boost and go into boost when i want it to so im happy

 

I want 2 Evos.

One with 2.0L 37r, the other 2.3L green. Since I couldn't afford both, I opted for 2.3L 35r. Not as fun as stock turbo but tons of fun when I'm at WOT.

 

94AWD makes some good points. Perhaps we set some definitions of what the characteristics of "fun street car" and "drag car" are. It is my opinion that folks who ask the question have not had the chance to experience much and so we end up talking past each other when we begin detailing the components needed.

Its too bad HP or TQ have become the measures used, but then again it is much harder to describe responsiveness of a well suited street car and the fun it can be getting from corner to corner and never going over 60MPH compared to the never ending top end pull of a drag car. It is a personal choice but one that is hard to make without having experienced both first hand.

 

I agree!! What happens when you don't have corners? 1 roadcourse within 3 hrs.......at that point the choice becomes easier.

I know when I was in Tenn. I was wishing I had the EVO.....for roads like that a 2.3 Red/Green........shoot just having a stock EVO would be fun. Here it's straight roads and that's it .

 

Succinctly put and correct.

A dyno reveals only what happens at 100% TPS, and nothing else. This is fine for a drag car. To me, a fun street car is something that is responsive on the street, and conventional big turbo setups rob that quality.

Making power is the easy part. The inherent challenge as I've always seen it (that spans some 25 years now) is making exceptional power AND retaining as much response and civility as the laws of physics allow. We've not seen the extent of what is achievable in that direction, and that is what the whole twinscroll fuss is all about.

 

its surprisng to see that so many people are making these broad generalizations, ie "anything bigger than a fpred is too big for anything but WOT" ... reality doesnt work like that. there is a huge positive benefit to running a fairly large turbocharger in a twinscroll configuration

dont forget, the reason the stock 8/9 turbo and all the FP turbos work so well is that they are all twinscroll dual WG!!

a serious setup with a 10 blade turbine wheel in a big a/r twinscroll housing and a badass compressor side is going to deliver mindblowing performance. I understand many may not agree with this, and it hurts their feelings to point this out, but its a fact.

 

i know its been tough for you as i always see you having to defend the twin scroll set up. i think most people just have a problem with the difference in price compared to singlescroll kits and if the benefits are worth the extra money. ive actually really been interested in the twin scroll since i live in a high elevation area and spool, plus transient reponse would be very beneficial for me, maybe one day i can speak with you and discuss a set up for me. my car was tuned recently by mitch mckee, who highly recommended your twin scroll 40r set up.