FPRED vs CBRD BBK
I think a lot of people (including me) would love to see a simple dynosheet comparison under the same conditions with basic bolt-ons: IX Stock turbo vs CBRD lite/full vs Red. Sure, you can´t see things like transient response in a dyno, but boost threshold and area under the curve would be great to have.
Until that happens, we´ll see this kind of posts constantly.
Until that happens, we´ll see this kind of posts constantly.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,206
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From: Bel Air, MD
I think a lot of people (including me) would love to see a simple dynosheet comparison under the same conditions with basic bolt-ons: IX Stock turbo vs CBRD lite/full vs Red. Sure, you can´t see things like transient response in a dyno, but boost threshold and area under the curve would be great to have.
Until that happens, we´ll see this kind of posts constantly.
Until that happens, we´ll see this kind of posts constantly.
I believe the bbk was made to be along the lines with the green/white, so why does everyone want to compare this turbo the fp red which flows much more.
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 398
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From: Dubai
Please be careful when deconstructing posts!
I don't think I said that the Red is inferior to the BBK or vice versa - I was considering both turbos in fact and I've had two Greens on order at various times as well.
What swayed me was my particular needs - I daily drive my car and do *alot* of autocross and road racing on the side as well, on average 2-3 track events per month in Dubai heat.
I've been doing very well on just the stock turbo and full bolt ons (running around 340-360whp) in both AutoX and circuit racing applications and was merely looking for a replacement turbo that would enhance my powerband measurably without disrupting any of the characteristics I already love about my setup. As such, my aim was for a power increase into the 400whp neighbourhood if possible but with even more of an emphasis on quick spool, turbo efficiency, transient reaponse and power under the curve etc.More power is great but I also put a huge emphasis on reliability, consistency and driveability as well - I haven't been running the most reliable street/track Evo in the country by being careless after all (ZERO engine related issues so far since I got the car).
I'm well aware that Nils thinks very highly of the Red for track work as do a few other people on the boards. I've read their excellent reviews and as a result both the Red and BBK turbos were on my shopping list when it came time to plunk down for a new turbo.
When it came down to it, I chose the BBK Lite because it simply seemed to be ever-so-slightly more bang-on in sync with my needs and my plans for the car as well as the way I use the car. Given that all the data indicates that the BBK Lite operates very well within the parameters I need a turbo to operate in, and after carefully studying all the data, I simply didn't see the point of spending the extra for the Red in my case when there's no proven, tangible benefit. Simple as that.
No doubt, however, that the FP Red is also an excellent product and I don't think I ever suggested or implied otherwise.
I may or may not be giving up some horsepower vs. an FP Red but ultimtely I don't care. Even on a very poorly tuned setup I was more than satisfied with the way the BBK Lite felt compared to the stock turbo - it spooled just as quick as the stocker and pulled like a frikkin' freight train right to the top of the rev range in every single gear without running out of puff - exactly what I was after.
Unfortunately I managed to crash my car only two weeks after getting the BBK Lite installed (minor accident) so I haven't been able to enjoy it fully tuned yet nor have I had the chance to subject it to a trackday or two yet to see how different it feels there, let alone notice any measurable changes in lap times. When it's all fixed and back on the road, and after the car's been properly tuned, I don't see my opinions of the turbo getting any worse though, and in any case it'll be off to the track to see what the local Porsche boys think of it.
If people want to play the dyno game between the two please feel free to do so - I've already done my own homework and everything I've seen so far suggests that the two put out similar power given similar bolt on mods and pump gas, at similar levels of boost etc. If somebody can prove otherwise, go ahead and share your data, no harm in that. Plenty of dyno sheets out there!
Ultimately I could have gone FP Red or BBK but I chose the BBK Lite and have been more than satisfied. I'm sure I would have been very happy either way but I'm glad I made the choice I did based on product alone, however I must also say that CBRD's top notch service, super quick turnaround times and very helpful after-sales customer support have also simply been far beyond my expectations as well. I couldn't be more satisfied and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the BBK as well as the BBK/CBRD package.
Anyways people were always going to compare the two turbos - I know I did bfore buying the BBK! But as I said in my post - bottom line is that which ever way you choose to go it's simply good times to be an Evo owner with choices like these!
Happy hunting
I don't think I said that the Red is inferior to the BBK or vice versa - I was considering both turbos in fact and I've had two Greens on order at various times as well.
What swayed me was my particular needs - I daily drive my car and do *alot* of autocross and road racing on the side as well, on average 2-3 track events per month in Dubai heat.
I've been doing very well on just the stock turbo and full bolt ons (running around 340-360whp) in both AutoX and circuit racing applications and was merely looking for a replacement turbo that would enhance my powerband measurably without disrupting any of the characteristics I already love about my setup. As such, my aim was for a power increase into the 400whp neighbourhood if possible but with even more of an emphasis on quick spool, turbo efficiency, transient reaponse and power under the curve etc.More power is great but I also put a huge emphasis on reliability, consistency and driveability as well - I haven't been running the most reliable street/track Evo in the country by being careless after all (ZERO engine related issues so far since I got the car).
I'm well aware that Nils thinks very highly of the Red for track work as do a few other people on the boards. I've read their excellent reviews and as a result both the Red and BBK turbos were on my shopping list when it came time to plunk down for a new turbo.
When it came down to it, I chose the BBK Lite because it simply seemed to be ever-so-slightly more bang-on in sync with my needs and my plans for the car as well as the way I use the car. Given that all the data indicates that the BBK Lite operates very well within the parameters I need a turbo to operate in, and after carefully studying all the data, I simply didn't see the point of spending the extra for the Red in my case when there's no proven, tangible benefit. Simple as that.
No doubt, however, that the FP Red is also an excellent product and I don't think I ever suggested or implied otherwise.
I may or may not be giving up some horsepower vs. an FP Red but ultimtely I don't care. Even on a very poorly tuned setup I was more than satisfied with the way the BBK Lite felt compared to the stock turbo - it spooled just as quick as the stocker and pulled like a frikkin' freight train right to the top of the rev range in every single gear without running out of puff - exactly what I was after.
Unfortunately I managed to crash my car only two weeks after getting the BBK Lite installed (minor accident) so I haven't been able to enjoy it fully tuned yet nor have I had the chance to subject it to a trackday or two yet to see how different it feels there, let alone notice any measurable changes in lap times. When it's all fixed and back on the road, and after the car's been properly tuned, I don't see my opinions of the turbo getting any worse though, and in any case it'll be off to the track to see what the local Porsche boys think of it.
If people want to play the dyno game between the two please feel free to do so - I've already done my own homework and everything I've seen so far suggests that the two put out similar power given similar bolt on mods and pump gas, at similar levels of boost etc. If somebody can prove otherwise, go ahead and share your data, no harm in that. Plenty of dyno sheets out there!
Ultimately I could have gone FP Red or BBK but I chose the BBK Lite and have been more than satisfied. I'm sure I would have been very happy either way but I'm glad I made the choice I did based on product alone, however I must also say that CBRD's top notch service, super quick turnaround times and very helpful after-sales customer support have also simply been far beyond my expectations as well. I couldn't be more satisfied and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the BBK as well as the BBK/CBRD package.
Anyways people were always going to compare the two turbos - I know I did bfore buying the BBK! But as I said in my post - bottom line is that which ever way you choose to go it's simply good times to be an Evo owner with choices like these!
Happy hunting
Last edited by theshadow; Dec 10, 2008 at 02:28 PM.
The red and bbk have been compared because they have put out similar numbers on cbrd's dyno. The red outflows the lite and full but the numbers are fairly close on pump gas levels. It seems as if the red will pull out more once the boost is pushed past 26-27psi. Until then, they can be compared at lower boost levels, but yea if you want to talk about a full blown setup, the bbk won't flow as much or make the same power.
The red and bbk have been compared because they have put out similar numbers on cbrd's dyno. The red outflows the lite and full but the numbers are fairly close on pump gas levels. It seems as if the red will pull out more once the boost is pushed past 26-27psi. Until then, they can be compared at lower boost levels, but yea if you want to talk about a full blown setup, the bbk won't flow as much or make the same power.
Thank you!!!
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,206
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From: Bel Air, MD
The red and bbk have been compared because they have put out similar numbers on cbrd's dyno. The red outflows the lite and full but the numbers are fairly close on pump gas levels. It seems as if the red will pull out more once the boost is pushed past 26-27psi. Until then, they can be compared at lower boost levels, but yea if you want to talk about a full blown setup, the bbk won't flow as much or make the same power.
Does anybody have a Green that was tuned on the CBRD dyno?
Last edited by Shacochis06; Dec 10, 2008 at 04:49 PM.
Where have you seen Reds coming out of CBRD...the only one i can think of is mine which still di 379 on a stock ic and just some bolt ons and was in alot warmer weather in the summer time....in the colder weathere at the CBRD dyno day i know my car picked up significant power with a lil more boost and a very cool day....i know Chad said he had one there that was going to be tuned soon with e-85 soon tho...
Does anybody have a Green that was tuned on the CBRD dyno?
Does anybody have a Green that was tuned on the CBRD dyno?
we have only had ur red you are correct, then again... like we've said all along we didnt build our turbo to compete with the red...
just so happens our turbo rips....
we did a few greens, one being Fausts EBP evo ix which at 26 psi did 361whp with cams, fmic, ported intake mani etc etc...
cb
