Aluminum rods
Since we run E85-E98 all the time around here, my plan is to run 30 daily on mine (162mm 2.2, turbo mostly decided on) and 40-45 for when I get called out...or have the urge for single digit e.t.'s. We run these all the way up to 11k rpm (in Paul's Evo) and havent had failure issues with that coupled with the boost and the overall power level. I am only planning on 9000 or so with mine.
What about you Jeff? I see your power level, but what RPM range are you going to now?
What about you Jeff? I see your power level, but what RPM range are you going to now?
Daily driving an Aluminum rod motor... Errr I don't know. If you don't mind checking the torque on the rod bolts at least every year. That’s what you need to do from my understanding.
I think personally the aluminum rod beliefs and understanding all came from the domestic guys that run 800g pistons on top of the rods.. Not little time 85mm pistons on top of a beefy rod like what is produced these days.. I dont think personally they stretch enough to have to check or re torque them yearly or at 12k mile intervals.. I guess well see.. I have the Aluminum rods in my RS and we have a lot of abuse on them already.. Id say 15k miles of 8k rpm doesnt compare to 3k miles and 100 passes at 10k rpm.. Just my opinion..
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Northwest
EnglishRacing Billet Rods not JBspec, and they are produced by another party to our specifications as Erik already pointed out.
For the record, having built circle track/sprint car engines for a good portion of my youth I need to explain something about aluminum rods from the domestic standpoint:
150mm is 5.905" which is longer than the rods in a small block 350 from the factory (5.7" or 144.8mm). Upgrade options in those cars are 5.85" and 6" and generally those are the rare setups. 162mm rods are 6.368 and thats a stock Big block Chevy more or less. As Mike pointed out they swing BIG weight, and not just per piston (which is in the 600-800g range depending on manufacturer and cast vs forge). The whole rotating assembly even when balanced to the Tee is still FRICKING HEAVY.
Our pistons are somewhere between 340-360g for standard and builds and as light as 308 for the Mahles. Figure out the weight at 9k from a 308g piston with a crank that literally weighs less than a 1/3 of a BBC and it becomes obvious that the reciprocating force is far easier. (figure piston acceleration in G's * weight of assembly)
We do make more power per cylinder which means more force, but I bet its a wash in our favor. If you were to go through all the archives of Hot Rod and MuscleCar, most of the writers and shops agreed long ago that a good oil cooler was a must to make alloy rods last on the street. 15k on the street with racing and NO OIL COOLER, and negligible stretch isnt bad.
I think they should work really well though, I am looking forward to using them in my engine and it looks like others love theirs right now.
For the record, having built circle track/sprint car engines for a good portion of my youth I need to explain something about aluminum rods from the domestic standpoint:
150mm is 5.905" which is longer than the rods in a small block 350 from the factory (5.7" or 144.8mm). Upgrade options in those cars are 5.85" and 6" and generally those are the rare setups. 162mm rods are 6.368 and thats a stock Big block Chevy more or less. As Mike pointed out they swing BIG weight, and not just per piston (which is in the 600-800g range depending on manufacturer and cast vs forge). The whole rotating assembly even when balanced to the Tee is still FRICKING HEAVY.
Our pistons are somewhere between 340-360g for standard and builds and as light as 308 for the Mahles. Figure out the weight at 9k from a 308g piston with a crank that literally weighs less than a 1/3 of a BBC and it becomes obvious that the reciprocating force is far easier. (figure piston acceleration in G's * weight of assembly)
We do make more power per cylinder which means more force, but I bet its a wash in our favor. If you were to go through all the archives of Hot Rod and MuscleCar, most of the writers and shops agreed long ago that a good oil cooler was a must to make alloy rods last on the street. 15k on the street with racing and NO OIL COOLER, and negligible stretch isnt bad.
I think they should work really well though, I am looking forward to using them in my engine and it looks like others love theirs right now.
Last edited by JohnBradley; Dec 12, 2008 at 06:54 PM.
I think personally the aluminum rod beliefs and understanding all came from the domestic guys that run 800g pistons on top of the rods.. Not little time 85mm pistons on top of a beefy rod like what is produced these days.. I dont think personally they stretch enough to have to check or re torque them yearly or at 12k mile intervals.. I guess well see.. I have the Aluminum rods in my RS and we have a lot of abuse on them already.. Id say 15k miles of 8k rpm doesnt compare to 3k miles and 100 passes at 10k rpm.. Just my opinion..
Last edited by awdboosted; Dec 13, 2008 at 12:32 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,406
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From: Northwest
Proof is in the pudding as they say.
Anyone else running alloy that wants to comment? How about Al, I know hes been running aluminum for awhile.
aaron
On my car we never pulled the pan once and the bolts were just as tight as the day we installed them. At the moment my car is apart going to 11:1 comp, dual rail and Magnus cast intake. I am a bit nervous about the rods at 15k and tons of heat cycles. Most of the driving was daily intown and track so more heat cycles then most evos get. I am going to put them back in on the next build which will be stock turbo for a few weeks seeing if we can make even more HP on the Stock turbo and then the car will go to a 700-800hp street car. So I will let you guys know how they do for the 2nd round.
The rods had no stretch from our check. I will have my new pistons here next week so I will let you know if my machine shop finds anything wrong with the rods.
The rods had no stretch from our check. I will have my new pistons here next week so I will let you know if my machine shop finds anything wrong with the rods.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,406
Likes: 78
From: Northwest
Evolving Member
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From: Houston
Billet 150mm goodness...and 162mm hawtness
Coming to an engine soon
After doing ALOT of street driving/torture testing, there is no doubt that aluminum rods will hold up even without an oil cooler. Approx 15,000 miles of street and track time (including running 10s on a stock turbo) without an oil cooler and they are still good. Stretch was still minimal when we had them checked. Anyone else with Alloy rods and mileage that wants to share/talk tech?
Aaron
Coming to an engine soon
After doing ALOT of street driving/torture testing, there is no doubt that aluminum rods will hold up even without an oil cooler. Approx 15,000 miles of street and track time (including running 10s on a stock turbo) without an oil cooler and they are still good. Stretch was still minimal when we had them checked. Anyone else with Alloy rods and mileage that wants to share/talk tech?
Aaron