Who is a smart Evo 8 tech??
Feb 8, 2009, 05:31 PM
#18
this is the correct path of diagnosis for this problem.
begin by ruling out the most common issue........ THE STARTER. unplug the single black wire that goes to the starter... hook up a test light to it have someone turn the key to the 'START' position. if you get 12v change your starter.
Eddie Rosado
begin by ruling out the most common issue........ THE STARTER. unplug the single black wire that goes to the starter... hook up a test light to it have someone turn the key to the 'START' position. if you get 12v change your starter.
Eddie Rosado
Feb 8, 2009, 05:46 PM
#19
Id have to argue in this case. I have never seen or heard of a 4g63 needing a starting....im definately not sayen that it can't be but it is very uncommon just beacause the 4g63 makes a starters life easy, small motor with not much compression. more than likely its not getting a signal from the key
but yes i agree i havent seen or heard of an evo getting a starter YET. if he was able to verify 12v at the black small wire plug on the starter **by pulling it off first**, then turning the key to the 'start' position. you can easily RULE OUT the starter and move on to the alarm or immobilizer with confidence.
Eddie Rosado
Feb 8, 2009, 05:55 PM
#21
it doesnt need to be in constant mesh with it. what your trying to do is release the stator from the side that the bearing wore off that the magnet is pulling it to so that it can orbit, energize, and turn/start. same as hitting it with a hammer while having someone try to start it, only this one is slightly less effective cuz your not shocking the starter dirrectly. how ever this way you can do it on your own.
mitsubishi starters do go. and yes on an evo i havent seen it happen yet. how ever common causes of bushing failures is ambient contaminants such as road salt for the icy/snow roads. dirt/sand dry areas such as desserts. water not so much but it could be a cause of oil or lubricant starvation in this area.
but yes i agree i havent seen or heard of an evo getting a starter YET. if he was able to verify 12v at the black small wire plug on the starter **by pulling it off first**, then turning the key to the 'start' position. you can easily RULE OUT the starter and move on to the alarm or immobilizer with confidence.
Eddie Rosado
mitsubishi starters do go. and yes on an evo i havent seen it happen yet. how ever common causes of bushing failures is ambient contaminants such as road salt for the icy/snow roads. dirt/sand dry areas such as desserts. water not so much but it could be a cause of oil or lubricant starvation in this area.
but yes i agree i havent seen or heard of an evo getting a starter YET. if he was able to verify 12v at the black small wire plug on the starter **by pulling it off first**, then turning the key to the 'start' position. you can easily RULE OUT the starter and move on to the alarm or immobilizer with confidence.
Eddie Rosado
Agreed I said it could be the starter its just uncommon because the 4g63 is so easy to turnover. Im not quite sure where you were going with the orbiting thing. From what I have seen the type of starter failure commonly cured by the "hammer trick" is due to one "dead spot" on the armature so the idea is too get the starter to rotate a little bit past the dead spot.
And it has already been stated that the immobilizer is not part of the cranking circuit. It has to be one of three things: starter, starter solenoid, or faulty signal to starter solenoid.
Feb 8, 2009, 06:33 PM
#22
Agreed I said it could be the starter its just uncommon because the 4g63 is so easy to turnover. Im not quite sure where you were going with the orbiting thing. From what I have seen the type of starter failure commonly cured by the "hammer trick" is due to one "dead spot" on the armature so the idea is too get the starter to rotate a little bit past the dead spot.
And it has already been stated that the immobilizer is not part of the cranking circuit. It has to be one of three things: starter, starter solenoid, or faulty signal to starter solenoid.
And it has already been stated that the immobilizer is not part of the cranking circuit. It has to be one of three things: starter, starter solenoid, or faulty signal to starter solenoid.
and about the immobilizer yes, your'e right i forgot its totally unrelated.
i think its the starter.
Eddie Rosado
Feb 8, 2009, 07:10 PM
#23
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starter signal wire popped off the starter. Poped it back on and started right up, however, shortly after threw a cel for crank angle sensor. Great just my luck. Had to tow the car home. Thanks for all the input guys. I posed this just to get some general advice while i was trouble shooting, I started with the clutch switch, Then Fuses then starter relay, And then starter.
Feb 8, 2009, 09:38 PM
#25
I would NOT touch the starter just yet...
EDIT: I guess I was too slow to post! LOL
Here is my original post. (for the benefit of those whom maybe having similar issues)
I would not touch the starter just yet. It's uncommon, like some previous posters have said. A little bit more information on the events prior to the attempt in cranking the vehicle would help, i.e. installation of mods, battery replacement, etc. Well, if you know all your electrical connections and cables are good, I would check...
...the battery next (if it was replaced... or needs to be replaced) for proper voltage (min 12v+) and cranking amperage (min 500+ CCA) Those are the specs for the OEM battery, model 75D23L. Smaller batteries have a higher CCA rating, which is fine. Then I would check...
...the clutch pedal position switch. It is wired in series in the starting circuit and your car won't crank if the switch remains off or is faulty. If you have ever done a clutch pedal adj. you'll know where this switch is. You can check the operation of this switch by checking continuity (via a multi- meter with diode check function) when the plunger is depressed and when it isn't. (I forget which is the on/ off position) If you get no continuity in either position whatsoever- the switch is bad and needs to be replaced.
Next I would check the starter relay inside the engine compartment. There are black plastic boxes to the right of the battery; the starter relay is in the box on the left. (thinnest box) Pop off the cover and the starter relay should be the bottom- most one while you are facing your car from the front. If you pull out the relay, it should look some thing like this:
------------
||1||2||3||
|||||||||||||
||||||4||||||
|||||||||||||
||||||5||||||
------------
The numbers represent terminals. (or blades) You can check the relay by jumping terminals 1 and 3 via jumper wires coming from a power source. The service manual says you can use the car battery as the power source; connecting terminal 1 to the positive battery terminal and terminal 3 to the negative. (make sure you have some decent sized jumper wires when you do this, maybe 14 AWG or thicker; I personally use a 9v battery to check relays in general) When voltage is applied to terminals 1 & 3, the coil inside magnetically closes a switch between terminals 2 & 5, thus completing the circuit to the starter. With the trusty multi- meter, the resistance reading at terminals 2 & 5 (when the circuit closes via energizing terminals 1 & 3) should be less than 2 ohms. If the reading is more or out of range- the relay is bad and needs to be replaced.
At this point, some people would be tempted to switch out the starter relay with one of the other relays in the same box; I would advise against this because 1.)they might not have the same specs, or 2.) whatever damaged the first relay could also damage the second relay, and 3.) one of the other relays is for fuel injection. (which your car would also need to start...)
If the car still did not crank by the time I checked the previous components, only then would I look at the starter. I would check the cables for looseness and even corrosion. These symptoms would be likely if you do not have your under tray/ splash guard on. There are tests you can perform on the starter but could be dangerous if you don't know what your doing. If you really think it is the starter, you could have your local Autozone, Pep Boys, or Mitsu dealer check it out. (If you know it is definitely the starter and have the time and are competent enough- you can rebuild the starter yourself.) Most people would just R & R anyway...
And the point of all this: Purchasing a new major component (like a starter) only to find out that it was not the issue in the first place. I'm pretty sure you would understand the value of effective and proper diagnosing by then. It should not come to that though... Save yourself some time and money... Do it right the first time.
Good luck...
Here is my original post. (for the benefit of those whom maybe having similar issues)
I would not touch the starter just yet. It's uncommon, like some previous posters have said. A little bit more information on the events prior to the attempt in cranking the vehicle would help, i.e. installation of mods, battery replacement, etc. Well, if you know all your electrical connections and cables are good, I would check...
...the battery next (if it was replaced... or needs to be replaced) for proper voltage (min 12v+) and cranking amperage (min 500+ CCA) Those are the specs for the OEM battery, model 75D23L. Smaller batteries have a higher CCA rating, which is fine. Then I would check...
...the clutch pedal position switch. It is wired in series in the starting circuit and your car won't crank if the switch remains off or is faulty. If you have ever done a clutch pedal adj. you'll know where this switch is. You can check the operation of this switch by checking continuity (via a multi- meter with diode check function) when the plunger is depressed and when it isn't. (I forget which is the on/ off position) If you get no continuity in either position whatsoever- the switch is bad and needs to be replaced.
Next I would check the starter relay inside the engine compartment. There are black plastic boxes to the right of the battery; the starter relay is in the box on the left. (thinnest box) Pop off the cover and the starter relay should be the bottom- most one while you are facing your car from the front. If you pull out the relay, it should look some thing like this:
------------
||1||2||3||
|||||||||||||
||||||4||||||
|||||||||||||
||||||5||||||
------------
The numbers represent terminals. (or blades) You can check the relay by jumping terminals 1 and 3 via jumper wires coming from a power source. The service manual says you can use the car battery as the power source; connecting terminal 1 to the positive battery terminal and terminal 3 to the negative. (make sure you have some decent sized jumper wires when you do this, maybe 14 AWG or thicker; I personally use a 9v battery to check relays in general) When voltage is applied to terminals 1 & 3, the coil inside magnetically closes a switch between terminals 2 & 5, thus completing the circuit to the starter. With the trusty multi- meter, the resistance reading at terminals 2 & 5 (when the circuit closes via energizing terminals 1 & 3) should be less than 2 ohms. If the reading is more or out of range- the relay is bad and needs to be replaced.
At this point, some people would be tempted to switch out the starter relay with one of the other relays in the same box; I would advise against this because 1.)they might not have the same specs, or 2.) whatever damaged the first relay could also damage the second relay, and 3.) one of the other relays is for fuel injection. (which your car would also need to start...)
If the car still did not crank by the time I checked the previous components, only then would I look at the starter. I would check the cables for looseness and even corrosion. These symptoms would be likely if you do not have your under tray/ splash guard on. There are tests you can perform on the starter but could be dangerous if you don't know what your doing. If you really think it is the starter, you could have your local Autozone, Pep Boys, or Mitsu dealer check it out. (If you know it is definitely the starter and have the time and are competent enough- you can rebuild the starter yourself.) Most people would just R & R anyway...
And the point of all this: Purchasing a new major component (like a starter) only to find out that it was not the issue in the first place. I'm pretty sure you would understand the value of effective and proper diagnosing by then. It should not come to that though... Save yourself some time and money... Do it right the first time.
Good luck...
Last edited by slipperychicken; Feb 8, 2009 at 09:44 PM. Reason: OP fixed problem.
Apr 19, 2009, 08:16 PM
#26
I'm glad I stumbled upon this discussion. Lately, I've been dealing with a situation whereby the starter will sometimes not engage when I go to start the car. We have verified that neither the solenoid nor starter are at fault, nor is it an issue with the clutch switch. What is strange is that when this occurs, if put the car in 5th gear and push it about a foot, I can hear something electrical under the hood 'reset', and it will usually start right after that.
I'm going to swap this starter relay and see if the situation reoccurs.
I'm going to swap this starter relay and see if the situation reoccurs.
May 3, 2009, 11:08 PM
#28
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I ran into the same problem today i had gone to the gym I came home my car sat for about 2 hrs and when I went to start it nothing,, i checked my battery and it was good, fuses are all good,,, i noticed my CEL was staying on when my ignition was on so I hook up my scanner and got P0335 twice ,,,I havent checked my starter yet,, I dont see how a lose connection on the starter would cause a Crank angle sensor code although I am new to the import stuff,, mainly work on carb stuff,, I would appreciate any help..
May 5, 2009, 11:46 PM
#30
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got it fixed ,, one of the starter wires that connects to the starter popped off,,, the only thing im still wonder about is the p0335 code that popped upwhile this whole thing happened..