Spark Plug Recommendations?
This is interesting... whats uo itune... we talked a couple of years ago when Japtrix and Billet Design almost blew my car up... 4Ws fixed that up for me... thanks for pointing me in the right direction...
Back to the topic... Here the thing i dont understand.
Ive run the stock plugs in my car all this time. My car is in the process of a major overhaul. Tamer and i sat down and planned everything to buy. One of the things he was pretty insistant on was using the copper plugs... i didnt question it as he knows more about tuning than i do... whats you reason for not going with the copper setup?
Back to the topic... Here the thing i dont understand.
Ive run the stock plugs in my car all this time. My car is in the process of a major overhaul. Tamer and i sat down and planned everything to buy. One of the things he was pretty insistant on was using the copper plugs... i didnt question it as he knows more about tuning than i do... whats you reason for not going with the copper setup?
And more......
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/4047869-post49.html
originally posted by iTune
a misfire will register a lean spike if your WB has a high sample rate(innovate LC-1/LM-1) but it may not be enough for you to see unless it was a serious/consecutive misfire.
A misfire can also be picked up by the knock sensor and registerd as knock, or the most common way to tell if you are missing is a loss in power(shaky torque curve) and a actual "mis" which can be felt and heard along with backfiring..ect.
If your gap is too large, you will most likely get a misfire across all cylinders, in which this case you will deffinatly pick this up using a high sample rate WBo2(fast high spiking lean conditions) and it would be felt and would deffinatly show up on the dynograph.
For you power(not boost), i would open back up to about .028 and start from there. You may not be able to run .028 but you won't know until you try.
For gapping these plugs, use a feeler type gauge(can be bought at pep-boy, advanced autoparts..ect) and be careful not to hit the small electrode on anything(including the feeler gauge). On a feeler gauge type gapper, be carefull on to shove the feelin inbetween the ground strap and the electrode, if the gap is too small for the feeler used, don't shove it in there. To open up gap, use the end of the feeler gauge to stick on the side of the ground strap(in the curve of the ground strap) and slowly and very lightly pull the ground strap out. Check the gap again and repeat. If you have gone too far(take your time!), take a block of solid wood, lay it on a desk or ground and tap the ground strap of the plug on the block of wood very very lightly and then check the gap. If it's still too large for the gap you want, do it again until it's perfect. This take practice to find the right force used to move the ground strap little by little. The key is to go slow and light. If you went too far(gap too small) use the feeler gauge gapper to open it back up. Repeat process until it's where you want it(in your case start at .028). Do this for all 4 plugs. Making sure your measurements are perfect for each plug. Don't allow there to be different gaps on different plug, like saying.....thats close enough. Take your time and make them all perfect.
With practice and learning how to know what a misfire is, you will get it right.
Good luck!
CJ
a misfire will register a lean spike if your WB has a high sample rate(innovate LC-1/LM-1) but it may not be enough for you to see unless it was a serious/consecutive misfire.
A misfire can also be picked up by the knock sensor and registerd as knock, or the most common way to tell if you are missing is a loss in power(shaky torque curve) and a actual "mis" which can be felt and heard along with backfiring..ect.
If your gap is too large, you will most likely get a misfire across all cylinders, in which this case you will deffinatly pick this up using a high sample rate WBo2(fast high spiking lean conditions) and it would be felt and would deffinatly show up on the dynograph.
For you power(not boost), i would open back up to about .028 and start from there. You may not be able to run .028 but you won't know until you try.
For gapping these plugs, use a feeler type gauge(can be bought at pep-boy, advanced autoparts..ect) and be careful not to hit the small electrode on anything(including the feeler gauge). On a feeler gauge type gapper, be carefull on to shove the feelin inbetween the ground strap and the electrode, if the gap is too small for the feeler used, don't shove it in there. To open up gap, use the end of the feeler gauge to stick on the side of the ground strap(in the curve of the ground strap) and slowly and very lightly pull the ground strap out. Check the gap again and repeat. If you have gone too far(take your time!), take a block of solid wood, lay it on a desk or ground and tap the ground strap of the plug on the block of wood very very lightly and then check the gap. If it's still too large for the gap you want, do it again until it's perfect. This take practice to find the right force used to move the ground strap little by little. The key is to go slow and light. If you went too far(gap too small) use the feeler gauge gapper to open it back up. Repeat process until it's where you want it(in your case start at .028). Do this for all 4 plugs. Making sure your measurements are perfect for each plug. Don't allow there to be different gaps on different plug, like saying.....thats close enough. Take your time and make them all perfect.
With practice and learning how to know what a misfire is, you will get it right.
Good luck!
CJ
also, for you people with access to a dyno, the rule of thumb on plug gaps in race applications is to open them up in .002" increments at a time. When the motor begins to lose power or slow down then go back .001-.002" and this in most cases is the optimum gap. This is actually reverse of the way i recommended above if you are doing this on the street. It is easier to measure power changes from gap and of course misfires(loss of power and/or shakey torque curves, fast jumpy lean spikes from WB02S).
CJ
CJ
This is interesting... whats uo itune... we talked a couple of years ago when Japtrix and Billet Design almost blew my car up... 4Ws fixed that up for me... thanks for pointing me in the right direction...
Back to the topic... Here the thing i dont understand.
Ive run the stock plugs in my car all this time. My car is in the process of a major overhaul. Tamer and i sat down and planned everything to buy. One of the things he was pretty insistant on was using the copper plugs... i didnt question it as he knows more about tuning than i do... whats you reason for not going with the copper setup?
Back to the topic... Here the thing i dont understand.
Ive run the stock plugs in my car all this time. My car is in the process of a major overhaul. Tamer and i sat down and planned everything to buy. One of the things he was pretty insistant on was using the copper plugs... i didnt question it as he knows more about tuning than i do... whats you reason for not going with the copper setup?
Well, it's simple really......
Caveat number one: Too sharp a tip will melt the electrode. If the temperature of the tip reaches the melting point of the metal that it's made of - you can kiss it goodbye. Here are the melting points of some commonly used metals (Celsius):
Zinc == 420
Aluminum == 660
Copper == 1083
Steel == 1400-1500
Platinum == 1772
Iridium == 2410
This problem is mainly concerned with the volume of metal at the spark tip - if the temperature even instantaneously reaches the melting point, some of that metal will disappear. You can see that Platinum and Iridium coated plugs can withstand significantly higher temperatures, and thus can have sharper tips than their steel or copper counterparts. To add insult to injury, if some of the metal does disappear from a very sharp tip, then you've actually opened up the spark gap some. To prevent that from happening, we have to start with a wider tip, such that any small amount that is eroded will not change the size or geometry of the tip by too much.
To avoid this, we want a wide area near the tip to conduct as much heat away from the tip as possible. Here are some of the thermal conductivities of some commonly used metals (Watts / centimeter*Kelvin) :
Zinc == 1.16
Aluminum == 2.37
Copper == 4.01
Steel == 0.70 - 0.82
Platinum == 0.716
Iridium == 1.47
You can easily see why Copper is the metal of choice for the core of the spark plug. It's just about the best thermal conductor on earth. Occasionally, you still find plugs with an aluminum core - stay away!
So, what we want is the sharpest tip possible such that it does not melt the electrode nor does it stay so hot as to cause pre-ignition.
High boost applications running copper tip plugs will suffer serious plug wear at a very fast rate.
Running a fine iridium tipped plug requires less voltage to spark. So, what we want is the sharpest tip possible such that it does not melt the electrode nor does it stay so hot as to cause pre-ignition. This is why the fine(.04) Iridium tipped NGK Iridium IX plug is the best plug for any high HP application.
Last edited by iTune; Apr 7, 2009 at 02:40 PM.
wow.... thats really good info... Tamer did tell me that i would have to replace these plugs every time i changed my oil... (3000 mile) but he said i would make better power with them... i will bring this thread to his attention... what do you think is his reason for the use of the copper thread? Pardon if youve already answered this and i just didnt get it...
wow.... thats really good info... Tamer did tell me that i would have to replace these plugs every time i changed my oil... (3000 mile) but he said i would make better power with them... i will bring this thread to his attention... what do you think is his reason for the use of the copper thread? Pardon if youve already answered this and i just didnt get it...
With a Iridium plug, it has twice the melting temp as copper, thus why you can get ultra fine electrode tips. You need a fine/sharp tip/edge to control the electrical arc from the electrode to the ground strap. Because the Iridium tip will not erode easily, you have a lasting plug that will continue to produce power, safely, while conducting it's other job(to sink heat away from the combustion chamber, VIA the head). This also decreases gap loss, which combats misfires over the life of the plug.
It's also important to know, that a Iridium plug still uses a copper core, so the only part of the plug's core that is not copper, is the fine iridium tip. This allows there to be a minimal electrical current loss, while keeping the positive attributes of of a fine iridium tipped plug.
I have not seen a single loss of power from using iridium plugs, over their copper counterparts. In fact, due to the facts i stated above, i have seen an increase in power, time and time again, using a properly gapped, heat ranged and installed Iridium plug, over their copper counterparts. Copper plugs are costly and don't last long, especially in high boost/high HP applications.
There is a reason why Mitsubishi and most other High Performance engines manufacturers choose to use Iridium plugs as OEM equipment, over all others. It's not just because they last longer.
Last edited by iTune; Apr 7, 2009 at 03:38 PM.
I run Denso Iridium IW-22's with great success. I usually get 2 years out of a set of plugs running a healthy dose of water/alcohol injection. I'll be playing with a set of colder IW-24's soon. JKD, what was your experience with Iridiums, why don't you like them?
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