is there someone who make this for the evo 9?

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Jun 18, 2009 | 05:28 AM

#31

PeteyTurbo

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From: Philadelphia

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvoDom

you can just weld the wastegate flapper shut.....then buy the MAP downpipe or o2 hosing with the tial 38mm wastegate and it will help you hold boost and stop boost creep....i do not no what MAPS design will do for spool up thou.

and external wastegate is alot better for making power then the little flapper inside the evo ix turbo, red, green, bbk.

the tial external will help out alot.....alot more then just a o2 dump.

dude

Jun 18, 2009 | 05:30 AM

#32

phenem

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From: Central PA

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevMoto

Please don't try to back up a shop you probably have only gotten parts from and have no idea who they are. I am not here to be a celebrity so if you don't know me I don't see why that should matter. I am present in a lot of conversations throughout the forums. Chances are the "very knowledgeable shops" you have talked to didn't get the full detail and have used a design like this in the past on a single scroll application. Anyone who has slight knowledge on how to set up a twin scroll application can tell you that you will have a problem. Please don't attack me on my background as this is a fight. People are always ready to throw down in front of a keyboard. I clearly stated a fault in your design and only good can come of it if they hope to listen. If I don't have enough background for anyone then please ask Ted B, Drifto(MPFab), Full-race, ETS, AFI, or any other fabricator who has worked on twin scroll applications and they will be able to answer all your questions as they did mine when I asked.

Rev, I was no way trying to knock you at all. In fact I said I take back what I said in a post above. I just got pissed cause all you said was it won't work. Well why? What research did you do and test results did you come up with?

Now that I have seen some of the research behind your reasoning, I am questioning along the same lines as you. I agree with you in the sense this could reduce spool but you don't have any data to backup what you are saying. I know others that build twin scroll manifolds told you that but did we test it? There are a lot of things that hypothetically should not work but do for some reason. I want to try both versions but I have no idea how you did what you did.

So, I am going to try out MAP's version with a before and after dyno plot and spool characteristics with my 2.3l BBK full turbo.

Also, I think it's great a new shop is building parts for the EVO. I don't know what they did before. Hell, they can be the most respected shop on the East Coast, I don't know. So I will give them a chance, they seem to have a lot of nice products and do good work. This helps new idea's come into the community and promotes better and innovative new solutions.

So let's work together and come up with results we can quantify. Your design might be better but if MAP's design is only worse by 100 RPM in spool then what's the big deal if you have better control of boost and in my case eliminate boost creep.

~Zach

Jun 18, 2009 | 05:40 AM

#33

phenem

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From: Central PA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petey Turbo

What is the need for all of the added flow capacity out of the wg for a stock frame turbo? I have not seen a single evo7-9 creep with a proper exhaust setup, even an FP red at 20psi.. After having EWG's on my DSM's I am happy to use an internal as long as I possibly can

Almost seems like it's "the thing to do" now but the only gain I can see from a properly set up car is reduced backpressure if you are dumping, and if you already have a good flowing exhaust even that gain will be negligible.

I have a 2.3l BBK Full setup and a BR full vband exhaust with a BR o2 housing. The exhaust is setup correct. The BBK is just running out of wastegate. I can hold 15 psi until about 5k then it ramps up to 24 psi by redline on wastegate only! I would say that is a boost creep issue. I did not have this issue on the stock EVO9 turbo.

Jun 18, 2009 | 05:54 AM

#34

PeteyTurbo

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From: Philadelphia

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenem

Why would you run lower then stock boost? your 24psi is most likely a snowball effect.. And why not run 24psi anyway?? I am sure you did not install the turbo to make the car slower

Jun 18, 2009 | 06:05 AM

#35

phenem

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From: Central PA

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvoDom

How would this work? No exhaust gas would enter the wastegate tube then. You would need to weld on a wastegate to the manifold not the downpipe, if you weld the wastegate shut on the stock hotside.

Jun 18, 2009 | 06:08 AM

#36

phenem

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From: Central PA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petey Turbo

Why would you run lower then stock boost? your 24psi is most likely a snowball effect.. And why not run 24psi anyway?? I am sure you did not install the turbo to make the car slower

It makes it really hard to dial in boost, plus on cold days I don't want to run 24 psi, I don't need to work the turbo or the motor that much. I would like to be able to run 19psi or higher consistently without any problems.

Plus, boost creep is a problem of running out of wastegate. Why mask it, I want to fix the problem.

~Z

Jun 18, 2009 | 06:12 AM

#37

EvoLutionized8

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From: Nashville, TN

I totally glued to this thread... please keep it coming.. I am about to be in the same boat with Red turbo and complete build and definitely do not want to miss a beat if there is a better part/theory out there.

Jun 18, 2009 | 06:15 AM

#38

PeteyTurbo

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From: Philadelphia

Quote:

Originally Posted by phenem

no making any problems, but this is where I think common sense comes into play.. at 19psi the stock turbo is probably the better choice.. Also I have driven a BBK car at 18psi with no creep.. Might want to check that wg tension.. I have always been a big fan of the factory 10.5 exhaust and it's wg abilities.

Jun 18, 2009 | 06:19 AM

#39

phenem

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From: Central PA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petey Turbo

Tension is stock and was told by CBRD to never touch it. It must only ever be 2.5 turns.

On a 2.0 liter the BBK full does not creep at all. Have you driven in a BBK full 2.3 car?

Did you notice I have a 2.3?

Jun 18, 2009 | 08:31 AM

#40

ChrisCarey

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From: Plymouth, MN

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevMoto

The difference between mine and yours is that my hotside is machine to where a tial flange can mate right up against the divided area near the wastegate flapper. By doing this it allowed both sides to be divided pre-wastegate. Your way is open and undivided causing a leak on both sides. This gives a negative affect on spool. I am sure your kit proved to hold the boost it should but I would bet money your spool up is hurt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by evozmarine

hmm they're both similar in the fact that they're both divorced...main difference i see is one of the wastegates sits a little farther downstream, i mean by all means correct me if i'm wrong.

My thoughts exactly, even with your wastegate mounted to the housing the discharge is still recessed into the housing allowing the wastegate gases from both scrolls to combine pre-wastegate as in our configuration. And what do you mean by "Your way is open and undivided causing a leak on both sides?" As far as I can see both designs allow the wastegate gases to combine pre-wastegate, and what exactly would be leaking?

In any case, we will have some before and after results in the very near future. We have our original prototype on a shop car here, and although no loss in regards to spool up was perceived I have a feeling you won't take my word for it

Jun 18, 2009 | 10:13 AM

#41

maperformance

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From: Cottage Grove, MN

Also will have some results from 9sec9 himself as he believes our setup is worthy enough to go on his FP red car.

Jun 20, 2009 | 02:01 PM

#42

project_skyline

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From: Colorado

I love when it comes to these small arguments between a shop/person and a engineer lol.

Lag is overrated, you tell us how much and maybe that will help, IMO anywhere between 100-300 rpm's in loss of spool is very unnoticeable next to the gains that are produced.

I'd like to see some dyno graphs until then ill hold off on my $800 purchase lol.

Jun 20, 2009 | 02:05 PM

#43

maperformance

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Will be up shortly

Jul 26, 2009 | 02:52 PM

#44

dcshoeco16

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From: MD

I was just wondering how you remove the flapper? I have looked at it but I don't see and easy way to remove it- do you have any suggestions? Thanks- John