leif

now that its out, what makes the power fc 1000 dollars better than the xede? am i going to see higher #s, and run these higher numbers safer than with the xede?

rarson

The fact that you are even comparing these two shows how little you know about them. The PowerFC is a complete standalone whereas the XEDE is a piggyback. If you want to know why the PowerFC is so much better, do some more research. If you're comparing prices, the XEDE isn't even worth it's own price. If you don't give a damn about price, the XEDE is not bad, but it's certainly no standalone.

leif

i'm aware of the fact that the xede is only a piggy back ecu while the power fc is a full standalone. true i don't know what all they both do 100%, that's why i'm asking. alls i wanted was a simple summary, don't need to get so heated.

n00dle

iTrader: (4)

Without getting into the technicalities of either. What you will get with the Xede is technical support, updates, software, and base files to name a few. It's a great option for those that don't have the technical know how or the time to invest in tuning, not that it's not possible. The tools are available to tune if needed. The product is more or less... slap it on and go.

The PowerFC is an awesome tool. But it requires that the end user know how to program it. It comes with a base file, but for any additional mod on the car you will have to tune for it. This takes time and technical know how.

Is the PFC better? From a technical stand point I would say yes.
From a real world perspective I would say not really. They both strive to accomplish a same goal and are both capable of doing it under their own technical limits. The PFC may end up costing alot more over time, depending on the users technical apptitude.

rarson

This is the fundamental difference between an EVO owner and the DSM guys that came before them. DSM guys found out the info on their own by researching or experience. I don't know why you guys expect to have the answers handed to you but it's not always going to happen. You are five clicks and 4 keywords away from finding all the info you need. Me "getting heated" is just me telling you to come back to reality, the info is already there for you to find yourself. No need to waste bandwidth and energy having people tell your their bench experience with these products.

The freaking point is you asked about product features, those can be found on the damn websites.

You ask stupid questions and you will get smart answers.

lose2abmw

wow, rarson really did not help out this post at all. Now that I have checked some of his previous posts I would say they are all not helpful as well. There is one in every crowd. It is hard to run a open forum if every one is afraid of being flammed by some random dude.

I am definately interested in this posts topic and would also like some more comparasions. Is the XEDE as good when coupled with the tuning software? Why go fully independent when the XEDE can manipulate all the same characteristics? Why is the XEDE so damn expensinve?

Peter

mazdryk

iTrader: (1)

Who makes the power FC? Who sells it? Sounds like Rarson had a bad day flipping burgers again. NO DOUBLE WHOPPERS FOR JOO

QuantumEVO

iTrader: (12)

The PFC is made by Apex.
http://www.apexi-usa.com/electronics_fc.asp
Standalones that are simpler such as this one can be utilized in the same manner as a piggyback for novice users once enough ppl get them. Plug and chug with the maps.
IMHO, the AEM is tons better but requires a MUCH higher level of experience. With any standalone, it is going to be tricky to find a suitable map for you from someone else. For all intents and purposes the highly powerful standalones don't have a useful basemap. The AEM is one of these although I have some that will at least get the car running and whatnot.
Essentially it comes down to one thing; are you intersted in spending literally HOURS studying the forums, playing with your car and talking to tuners or do you want to wire the sucker in and get back to making power, etc.
If you want to spend lots of hours and don't mind a car that doesn't always behave civilly, give standalones a shot. Start with a plug in unit with extensive basemapping and work from there with a wideband. Otherwise, perhaps start with an eManage or something you can play with. If you don't want to mess with it, get a reflash. All can make power but obviously the standalones can make the most by a margin. Piggybacks and reflashes are the only ones that have a hope of passing intensive emissions tests that utilize the obd2 port.
You can do a lot of cool things with a standalone as well, though.


Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com

n00dle

iTrader: (4)

Don't know about the software for Xede. Most users have been using Shiv's base files or having him do a custom tune.

Some just like to tinker and have control over everything. Some need it for the modifications they have that a standalone seems the most logical way. Decide on what the goal is and find the tools that will do the job. In some situations a complete standalone is not neccessary and at times it may be.

It may seem alot and for many it may be, but when you factor in the R&D the guys at Vishnu put in and the tech support and updates you will get for as long as you own it, the initial cost doesn't seem that bad in the long run.

The Xede coupled with their Stage packages is turn key solution, whereas with the PFC you tune it yourself for whatever mods you've done to the car and more or less on your own.

leif

you seem to be the only person out of the 120+ that have viewed this thread that has a problem with it, so why don't you just get out if you're not going to offer any help. i can find a list of what the xede does, and what the power fc does, but without an understanding of everything its usless to me, so i thought i would ask. but i guess you dsm drivers are better than us... i'll live with that. see you on the back roads....

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Just about any engine management system (stand alone, reflash, piggy-back) is capable of yielding the same power output. On the dyno, in the vast majority of applications, it's just a matter of mixing the right amounts of air and fuel, boost and timing the spark correctly. The areas where things tend to diverge is in ease-of-tuning and drivability. Often, these two facets go hand-in-hand. I find it amusing that those who speak ill about the XEDE have never seen it, used it or refuse to acknowledge the kind of performance XEDE-based applications are putting down. I'm still in TX right now recovering from a 16 hr dyno tuning day yesterday. I tuned ~10 EVOs, all with XEDEs, at turbochargers.com. A stock EVO with an XEDE put down 270whp. And a whole slew of Stage One EVOs put down 300-315whp. No detonation was heard the entire day and everyone seemed to be pretty pleased with the results. I'm not saying that this performance isn't acheiveable with a stand-alone. Just saying that it certainly isn't beyond the reach of an XEDE.

Cheers,
Shiv

Guru

iTrader: (6)

Personally I love the Power FC. IT is a powerful tool that allows you to set your rev limiter, idle speed full injector calibration, eliminates OBD-II and does full display of all your sensors all while remaining very user friendly. Lastly, another advantage of the Apexi unit is the Power FC D-Jetro advanced version allows you to eliminate the karmann Vortex sensor for big HP applications while still being super easy to install. I see no reason to use anything other than the Power FC for larger setups. ON the milder setups you can probably use something less expensive like the reflash, E-Manage or maybe even just an S-AFC II.

SILVER SURFER

The Power FC retails for $895, the D-Jetro version is $980. APEXI has been making this EVO stand alone for years, they are a huge, highly reputable Japanese aftermarket supply company, with world wide support. It comes preloaded with an excellent map geared towards safety, and there are certified tuners all over the country.
I am testing the base version in my car right now, the idle/drivability is far better than the stock ECU, Works or EXED, I have driven cars with all three and I can tell you with out a doubt, this thing rocks! I will be doing some dyno testing this week, based on how it feels I am sure the numbers will be impressive.
One of the features I really like, is the built in engine parameter warning system. If the stock knock sensor detects knock it will flash the check engine light, you can set the knock sensitivity for the warning and the frequency of the warning flash. It will also warn you through the stock display if/when the injectors are reaching say 98% or the MAF sensor is reaching the limit of it's measurement capability, you can also adjust the warning flash frequency for each type of warning.
While the stock knock retard is a good safety feature, under certain situations it will not completely eliminate knock, especially when your car is far from stock.
Most engine knock cannot be heard by most people, even if it was tuned well, say you get some bad gas, without some sort of visual/audible warning, you would not be aware of the damage your causing.
The Power FC has an excellent reputation as one of the most reliable trouble free plug and play systems on the market. Unlike the some of the other stand alone systems, it comes with highly developed maps that will allow it to function safely in any stock car straight from the manufacturer. There will also be a large number of maps available for various modifications in the very near future, not to mention there are tuners all over the country that can custom tune it for you.
It has a great deal of flexibility and useful features (far more than any piggy back system). While the APEXI is very powerful, there are certain correction maps that they do not allow even the certified tuners to adjust, some of the other systems coming like the AEM, Autronic, etc, allow you access to everything. For the majority of tuners out there these added maps usually create more problems than solutions. Most of these added features are for environmental conditions that are almost impossible for a single tuner to simulate, and since these added correction maps all interact with each other, you end up causing more problems by having to many adjustments.
If you are so inclined, the Power FC is extremely easy to tune, and IMO delivers drivability and engine safety that is actually better than the stock ECU. If you want to tune it yourself, the tuning interfaces run and additional $300.
The stand-alone options give you all the flexibility and functionality of a reflash and a piggyback, plus a whole lot more. For the price this is really a great option, far better than some of the less informed individuals on this thread would lead you to believe.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

There's a pricing inconsistency.. I've seen the DJetro for the Evo for around $1800 (including the FC Commander) and the model (LJetro? with the FC Command but Without the MAP Upgrade) for around $1200 is that the going rate?

Another thought, Apexi says that their boost control solenoid addon is not required for cars that are already turbocharged.. Did you find you were able to adjust the stock solenoid?

Or is the entire shebang the key (DJetro with the Boost solenoid kit?)

QuantumEVO

iTrader: (12)

Near stock EVO's don't have much difference regarding piggy versus standalone but I would like to see a piggy make the same power on a heavily modded EVO; not just intake, exhaust, piping, etc. The very fact that the piggy is using the stock ECU which requires the MAF voids the chance of making equal power on the heavies. I would whole heartedly agree with the 'staged' cars, however.