yah, I was thinking about trying JBWeld, but I couldn't find all of the pieces to put it back together!

 

Humpty-dumpty Evo ..........

 

422whp on the stock turbo is just pushing the motor harder...easier to make 450whp on a larger turbo and have a lot less boost.

 

I'd like to see your timing map.

 

I got it on my laptop...give me a few and I'll post it up.

 

Johnny's suffered purely mechanical failure, his knocklight is set at 4 ( I can send the whole ROM if you'd like). Here is the timing map image:

 

Hi Aaron. Thanks for posting that up quickly. The reason I asked is because as you are aware, its not too hard to got beyond MBT with no knock when using E85. There was talk in the alternative fuel and/or ECUFlash forum about a year ago of whether we'd start to see rods going through blocks because of this as the number of E85 users began to grow. If you tuned it, then I know the timing wasn't beyond MBT, and so it does appear to be an issue of too much power, or more likely, torque. So what was the torque?

 

I can remember the torque on gas, the car was 383/355. On E85 it was 422whp and I wanna say 380ish torque, below my normal "failure limit" at any rate. Between the timing and MIVEC I keep the torque a little low and flat to avoid weird loading. I will have to go to the dyno and pull up the .drf and take a look tomorrow.

Using my 400 ft lb rule hasnt failed me yet. Johnny's car is a fluke I think, I have never actually seen a wrist pin get sucked out the bottom of the piston. I mean my car has continued at 400 ft lbs for 49k of its 55k stock block life and 9k was when it was making 575whp / 399 (more importantly 350+ ft lbs out to redline).

There might be an easier explanation on Johnny's car. The other one that huffed 1 and 4 simultaneously is more about torque induced failure I think. In it the rod folded at the bump which is the strongest point of the stock rod and disintegrated the piston. This one failed at the wrist pin and left the top half of the piston intact. Kiggly has been examing the photos but his initial reaction was it was material failure, not pressured induced.

 

Gotcha. Thanks (and I feel a little better about my E85 tune. )

 

I always thought the stock motors would last longer on big turbos that small ones. A big turbo on a 2 litre is absolutely torqueless in most cases. But guys starting to run e85 and the stock turbo will make mega torque.

With two "carnage" threads to the top right now I wonder if this is a trend that will continue?

 

Glad i stumbled across this today as we have been having this same discussion of rods flying out of blocks on cars running E85 more recently.

We even have our own failures to compare to one notable one was a stock block 35r car on E85 that actually let go at the top of a dyno pull just about at the rev-limiter (assume mechanical failure as it was pushing 500whp on our MD sorry can't remember TQ)

A lot of our stock turbo E-85 cars that come in and get tuned by Sean look as though the TQ curves flatten out instead of a huge spike up and then a hard fall off.......... peak #'s don't always make records but the cars seem to hum along nicely.

Sorry we have a bunch of cars come through and the only case where we had the entire bottom half of the piston come apart at the wrist pin was on a set of Wiseco HD's not the stock stuff.

Interested to hear what others have to say now and then again as we continue to build and tune more Evo's in many diff configurations.....

 

I think you are correct CR, I think torqueless big turbo cars are likely to last longer...on pumpgas on a stock block. I think the avenue we have of E85 and it being cheap racegas make it alot easier to find the limit and exceed it on a stock bottom end. Like I said I think Johnny's was really a fluke as his car has never knocked at high boost even on pumpgas.

Patrick-

I have heard of the wrist pin pulling out but I always thought it was a domestic issue and even then its still fairly rare as far as my experience. I think a massive change in piston acceleration is about the only way its likely to do it. I havent talked to Sean in awhile...about time I call him and hang out

aaron

 

warranty has long been voided / expired....

cruising on fwy @ 3,200 rpm.....oil light on, horrible noise, fluid on my windshield in ~1 second ......

I believe JB is onto something with his oem btm end vs. torque made = failures....

I will post my failed piston picture tonight......1 of my rods are bent! Bearings look fine, even on the rod that lost the piston!

 

The only thing I've seen in worse shape was an RSX-S motor that was mechanically over-revved (misshifted) from 5th gear to 2nd gear, the desired gear was 4th. I think the ECU clocked the engine RPMs at just over 11K before the engine literally melted. Everything that was metal, that fell from the engine, was unrecognizable, appearing as nothing more than a glob of cooled metal.

 

Well done sir, well done. It's one thing to put holes in pistons but you've taken things one step further.