Lets hope this new one stays open. MAP was called out by Buschur so they should be able to defend themselves with facts.

 

First off, I didn't call out any vendor in particular.

Second, nobody here at this shop nor anyone I know reported the other thread to have it closed. I was not even in the office when it started and was closed. I came back here after a meeting hear about it. Just so we are all clear.

 

I am trying to wrap my head around how much can you actually do to a stock manifold to pick up 8-10whp over another ported manifold?

 

Ding Ding. Like I said in the other thread. I could buy 3 or 4 hp, but to grind on cast iron for an extra 4 hours on every single mani that came my way for an extra $100 or so. Well, I would have to of just got cleaned out at the poker table ha.

 

I'm not saying it was for a lack of effort. But there is only so much you can do to a stock manifold. I am saying 10hp is a bunch..3 or 4 would be a gift, and 1 or 2 would be more reasonable.

 

back in the day ''haha'' when i was on stock turbo i had a friend i would race and i would lose on top end. never really pulling on him but would hold him until he started to pull on the top end. i then added the br ported mani, br ported 10.5, and a works o2 housing which i lent to dave for testing and i with i had done the BR o2 ported unit as well. let me tell you. right off the bat i had 1.5 to 2 car lengths and at the end of the race we are talking a bus length. i was very impressed with the work and i had real world street driven results. im always telling friends who are staying with the stock type setup to get BR ported parts. they work.

 

headgames and jimib, both of you guys are on the same page as I am. I said in the thread, 1-3 from the extra from the small bit of extra runner length we leave at max. The 8-10 I can find in the logs that were posted. Testing on a stock ECU, worthless. Load changes in the MAF move the tables around too much.

 

Yep.

Agree with you Dan.

When I switched over some parts to the BR stuff, car felt a lot better!

 

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p...8/DSC04534.jpg

just looking at photo is apparent the entrance to runner is quite a bit bigger than head ports. so according to all who have opinions this manifold should be loosing power.

 

it doesn't look that much larger then the ports

 

both these manifolds are very near gasket matched. first is someones home job. the second is a MAP rev2. and it would not surprise me at all to see someone test and find this lip does help make power. the opinion that anti-reversion doesnt work in a turbo motor is incorrect info. a turbo motor moves air in and out of a head just like a N/A engine. the only difference is the turbo engine moves air that is more dense. and a turbo engine has a higher tendency for air to move backwards during valve overlap period. I did a cylinder head ten years ago for my 89 mirage turbo with special attention to anti-reversion tips by David Vizard (how to modify your mini) and that head worked utterly fantastic. was like I added cams again and this was at a 300-350 hp level. the factory evo 9 implemented anti-reversion on the 9 cylinder head buy sinking the valves in the chamber. this reduces back flow during overlap. the other tricks that work are to put a lip on top of intake and bottom of exhaust valves. this further reduces back flow

 

we do port them larger than the exhaust ports on the head, almost to the gasket. This is exactly for the reason that 94AWDcoupe is referring to, anti-reversion. Here's a simple test for anyone to try, that will be a better representation of what we are talking about. Take an exhaust mani, ported or stock, with no turbo on it, and simply blow into runner #2 on it. Feel the amount of air coming thru runner 3, instead of being directed into the turbo. Now imagine this at 8000rpm, with much higher pressure and velocity, and I think you get the "why" our is better.

The rest of the portwork that everyone is missing, are the transitions from runner to the turbo flange, and they are definitely not straight beveled like the BR version.....

 

if one of the vendors could do a simple test using a flow rate indicator or a velocity meter like the man in the vidoe below is doing then that would be great. just a suggestion!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NncTM9DEf8Y

 

ur right just did a test
thanks Bob
map ftw

 

When I posted my thread on the work I did on my manifold I was told that the gasket match job that I did was going to lose power. I didn't hog out the runners much, but I did get most of that upper portion connecting to the head.