Fp black or ETS kit
I had a T3 single scroll 35R setup. I loved the power, but didn't like the time it took to get there. 
The tradeoffs were not worth the benefits.
The RED and BLACK give you near instantaneous power and lots of it, with almost no lag. With decent supporting mods, the BLACK is capable of 600HP, and a nearly flat torque curve. It is a MUCH better daily driving combination, reliable (the factory turbos are obviously journal bearing), has a great warranty, and uses the factory cast manifold, which does not crack or break down like a header often does over time... The BLACK is proven to make enough power for 9s (Tom Powell, AWDMike, and others already have done that), so that's not a determining factor.
You have to decide if you want a more single focus car, or a car you can enjoy every time you get behind the wheel.
ETS makes a great quality kit. I run one of their 4" Garrett core intercoolers and like it a lot (Thanks, Michael!) This is NOT a knock on ETS -- just saying that your end goals should be carefully considered, and your choice based on what you want your car to do. Way too many people think that they need 600, 650, 700 HP because they see all the threads here from people's dynos, but many of those cars are not very fun to drive on the street everyday...
The tradeoffs were not worth the benefits.The RED and BLACK give you near instantaneous power and lots of it, with almost no lag. With decent supporting mods, the BLACK is capable of 600HP, and a nearly flat torque curve. It is a MUCH better daily driving combination, reliable (the factory turbos are obviously journal bearing), has a great warranty, and uses the factory cast manifold, which does not crack or break down like a header often does over time... The BLACK is proven to make enough power for 9s (Tom Powell, AWDMike, and others already have done that), so that's not a determining factor.
You have to decide if you want a more single focus car, or a car you can enjoy every time you get behind the wheel.
ETS makes a great quality kit. I run one of their 4" Garrett core intercoolers and like it a lot (Thanks, Michael!)
This is NOT a knock on ETS -- just saying that your end goals should be carefully considered, and your choice based on what you want your car to do. Way too many people think that they need 600, 650, 700 HP because they see all the threads here from people's dynos, but many of those cars are not very fun to drive on the street everyday...
I had a T3 single scroll 35R setup. I loved the power, but didn't like the time it took to get there. The tradeoffs were not worth the benefits.
The RED and BLACK give you near instantaneous power and lots of it, with almost no lag. With decent supporting mods, the BLACK is capable of 600HP, and a nearly flat torque curve. It is a MUCH better daily driving combination, reliable (the factory turbos are obviously journal bearing), has a great warranty, and uses the factory cast manifold, which does not crack or break down like a header often does over time... The BLACK is proven to make enough power for 9s (Tom Powell, AWDMike, and others already have done that), so that's not a determining factor.
You have to decide if you want a more single focus car, or a car you can enjoy every time you get behind the wheel.
ETS makes a great quality kit. I run one of their 4" Garrett core intercoolers and like it a lot (Thanks, Michael!) This is NOT a knock on ETS -- just saying that your end goals should be carefully considered, and your choice based on what you want your car to do. Way too many people think that they need 600, 650, 700 HP because they see all the threads here from people's dynos, but many of those cars are not very fun to drive on the street everyday...
The tradeoffs were not worth the benefits.The RED and BLACK give you near instantaneous power and lots of it, with almost no lag. With decent supporting mods, the BLACK is capable of 600HP, and a nearly flat torque curve. It is a MUCH better daily driving combination, reliable (the factory turbos are obviously journal bearing), has a great warranty, and uses the factory cast manifold, which does not crack or break down like a header often does over time... The BLACK is proven to make enough power for 9s (Tom Powell, AWDMike, and others already have done that), so that's not a determining factor.
You have to decide if you want a more single focus car, or a car you can enjoy every time you get behind the wheel.
ETS makes a great quality kit. I run one of their 4" Garrett core intercoolers and like it a lot (Thanks, Michael!)
This is NOT a knock on ETS -- just saying that your end goals should be carefully considered, and your choice based on what you want your car to do. Way too many people think that they need 600, 650, 700 HP because they see all the threads here from people's dynos, but many of those cars are not very fun to drive on the street everyday...well said my friend i pmed you about a part
The Black will make 500whp on pump with the right combination. It will make 600 on e85 or racegas and I suppose with enough meth.
I can make 550+ with minimal increase in lag (500rpm) on pump on a 3582HTA or 86HTA. Like COVR4 said its all about your goals and only buying the parts that fit those goals. Dont buy 2 turbos and pay for installs and tuning twice if the Black really wont meet what you want. On the other hand if the 35R is overkill, then dont buy it.
I can make 550+ with minimal increase in lag (500rpm) on pump on a 3582HTA or 86HTA. Like COVR4 said its all about your goals and only buying the parts that fit those goals. Dont buy 2 turbos and pay for installs and tuning twice if the Black really wont meet what you want. On the other hand if the 35R is overkill, then dont buy it.
^ No dyno graphs yet. We are having a few issues with the setup at the moment.
-Engine is too tight above 5,000RPM. It needs to be run in more.
-We have run out of resolution on the stock ECU. We are hitting 300 load cells @ 4,500RPM, so we need to get V7 working (with big maps). That is an issue all on its own. I have upgraded ECUflash to V1.42, but I now cant used my 1.3U cable! It keeps failing to read through ECUflash. EvoScan works fine though..
In saying that, we have made 308HP on 23psi @ 5,000RPM and then the power curve just goes flat.. So more work to be done. Full boost is in around 3,600~3,700 so spool feels similar to my old 20G + 272 setup (except more lively), but once on boost, its a TOTALLY different ballgame. I cant wait till we sort out the software so we can turn up the wick.. =D
-Engine is too tight above 5,000RPM. It needs to be run in more.
-We have run out of resolution on the stock ECU. We are hitting 300 load cells @ 4,500RPM, so we need to get V7 working (with big maps). That is an issue all on its own. I have upgraded ECUflash to V1.42, but I now cant used my 1.3U cable! It keeps failing to read through ECUflash. EvoScan works fine though..
In saying that, we have made 308HP on 23psi @ 5,000RPM and then the power curve just goes flat.. So more work to be done. Full boost is in around 3,600~3,700 so spool feels similar to my old 20G + 272 setup (except more lively), but once on boost, its a TOTALLY different ballgame. I cant wait till we sort out the software so we can turn up the wick.. =D
Last edited by Tonba; Mar 9, 2010 at 05:58 PM.
^ No dyno graphs yet. We are having a few issues with the setup at the moment.
-Engine is too tight above 5,000RPM. It needs to be run in more.
-We have run out of resolution on the stock ECU. We are hitting 300 load cells @ 4,500RPM, so we need to get V7 working (with big maps). That is an issue all on its own. I have upgraded ECUflash to V1.42, but I now cant used my 1.3U cable! It keeps failing to read through ECUflash. EvoScan works fine though..
In saying that, we have made 308HP on 23psi @ 5,000RPM and then the power curve just goes flat.. So more work to be done. Full boost is in around 3,600~3,700 so spool feels similar to my old 20G + 272 setup (except more lively), but once on boost, its a TOTALLY different ballgame. I cant wait till we sort out the software so we can turn up the wick.. =D
-Engine is too tight above 5,000RPM. It needs to be run in more.
-We have run out of resolution on the stock ECU. We are hitting 300 load cells @ 4,500RPM, so we need to get V7 working (with big maps). That is an issue all on its own. I have upgraded ECUflash to V1.42, but I now cant used my 1.3U cable! It keeps failing to read through ECUflash. EvoScan works fine though..
In saying that, we have made 308HP on 23psi @ 5,000RPM and then the power curve just goes flat.. So more work to be done. Full boost is in around 3,600~3,700 so spool feels similar to my old 20G + 272 setup (except more lively), but once on boost, its a TOTALLY different ballgame. I cant wait till we sort out the software so we can turn up the wick.. =D
Not exactly. A correctly sized engine, turbo kit, and cam combo can make more with a T3 than a Black can and spool similarly. I have made the same power with a 3582HTA, less boost and not too large a penalty in spool to do it (2.0L to 2.0L). I will be testing the theory in the near future when I switch over to the LR2.4 to compare my 3586 against JohnnyTSi's 2.4 MIVEC/Black combo. Mine and his will only differ in the turbo choice. I am tuning both and havent tuned it to less than 10/10s of what its capable of.
How do I 'update' my cable? You mean buy a new one??
Last edited by Tonba; Mar 9, 2010 at 07:02 PM.