Fp black or ETS kit
I'm not concerned about running a FP Black on stock block. I've got all bolt ons and running a safe 391whp and 337wtq on a mustang dyno.
not really concerned considering im going with a slightly moderate tune were looking in the range of 440 to 490ish hp and try to stay under 450 torque.
im not looking for huge numbers on the dyno im looking for a 10 sec stock block evo for now and when i go built next year hopefully more.
and i trust the tuner and im pretty sure he knows the limits
im not looking for huge numbers on the dyno im looking for a 10 sec stock block evo for now and when i go built next year hopefully more.
and i trust the tuner and im pretty sure he knows the limits
the right t3 turbo kit or the black are both good choices. Just do what the hell you know will makes you happy (and what you can afford). Everyones opinion are just that... opinions.
Evolved Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 697
Likes: 1
From: Mitchigan
running lower boost on the street (you aren't drag racing and by the sound of your post's aren't a dyno number hungry fool) and using pump gas/pump+meth/e85 I think it's a no brainer to choose the t3. I think most people will run this awesome fp black ~30psi and on e85 or meth. Both meth and e85 are volatile for different reasons(ethanol being volatile in it's availability and meth on the injection/failsafe/nozzle hardware) so I think the pure pump gas guys will not be happy with the black on the street with it's lack of punch at low boost.
Although I really like the black, I think if you are daily driving your car; you need to have lower boost for longevity. Both turbo options will kill your motor as they can both produce 800chp as shown in threads on here; you will need to show some sense and detune and I think detuning the t3 for fun will be much easier than the black on the street. Yes the t3 can spool almost just as well as the black so a lot of the points to a black are nullified by your pump gas low boost needs.
Although I really like the black, I think if you are daily driving your car; you need to have lower boost for longevity. Both turbo options will kill your motor as they can both produce 800chp as shown in threads on here; you will need to show some sense and detune and I think detuning the t3 for fun will be much easier than the black on the street. Yes the t3 can spool almost just as well as the black so a lot of the points to a black are nullified by your pump gas low boost needs.
The question really comes down to do you have supporting mods? If you don't have an upgraded downpipe, o2 housing, lower pipe, possible manifold, intake, etc. The black is going to turn out to be an expensive upgrade. Since your an 8, you will also need to buy the 9 install kit which costs another $200-$250.00 depending on the options.
After adding the costs up you are pretty close to a turbo kit. I think the turbo kit is a better option as far as upgrades go. The turbo kit gives you the ability to make the same power at lower boost levels. The problem with the stock frame turbo is you have to run 30-40 psi to make the power you see posted by some of the vendors. You will also need to have a built motor.
The difference between a stock frame turbo and T3 frame turbo is night and day difference on the top end. The T3 frame turbo will pull all the way past red line where the stock frame will make peak power and start to taper towards the end.
It's all about goals though, if your looking for a mild setup the bolt on may get you where you need to be, but if you want flexibility I think we can build you a T3 kit that fits your needs
Remember the FP bolt on turbos are all Journal bearing, so when comparing it to a turbo kit make sure it's journal bearing vs journal bearing My money is on the PT5857 turbo kit in journal bearing form.
Any other questions, let me know!
thanks,
Michael
After adding the costs up you are pretty close to a turbo kit. I think the turbo kit is a better option as far as upgrades go. The turbo kit gives you the ability to make the same power at lower boost levels. The problem with the stock frame turbo is you have to run 30-40 psi to make the power you see posted by some of the vendors. You will also need to have a built motor.
The difference between a stock frame turbo and T3 frame turbo is night and day difference on the top end. The T3 frame turbo will pull all the way past red line where the stock frame will make peak power and start to taper towards the end.
It's all about goals though, if your looking for a mild setup the bolt on may get you where you need to be, but if you want flexibility I think we can build you a T3 kit that fits your needs
Remember the FP bolt on turbos are all Journal bearing, so when comparing it to a turbo kit make sure it's journal bearing vs journal bearing
My money is on the PT5857 turbo kit in journal bearing form. Any other questions, let me know!
thanks,
Michael
Evolved Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
From: IL
No offense, but this is one for the books....
first off, you don't want to MAX out your turbo, if you want that buy a green and run it 35psi, lol.
I am talking my friend through a turbo purchase right now. He was after a # and only a number ( in his case, 500) I asked him why, it sounds good and safe. true but really what type of driving are you doing?
Sit back and find out what you are going to do with your car...
Are 600-700 whp evo's reliable, I think they can be, but if you don't upgrade everything in that car then you have a much higher rate of failure. Also about driving style.
my personal car - I wanted 500 / 500 and I came very very close - 501 and 485. I could easily have made some changes and gotten there however wallet gave out so I was very content with those numbers for my setup. my setup is 2.3 with a 50trim running 30lbs of boost with 100% meth...
Also, who came up with cars making 400 on a dyno jet don't last?! I made 499 on AMS dyno and the car before I did the stroker was 30k miles plus?!
I like the abilities of a T3 turbo, if you get bored with a turbo and where it kicks in, its much less expensive at that point to upgrade it. Pretty simply, buy a new turbo.. Otherwise if you don't like the black - then your back to a WHOLE kit again...
If it was up to me, a T3 is the way to go, best of luck to ya..... I will never own anything different.
first off, you don't want to MAX out your turbo, if you want that buy a green and run it 35psi, lol.
I am talking my friend through a turbo purchase right now. He was after a # and only a number ( in his case, 500) I asked him why, it sounds good and safe. true but really what type of driving are you doing?
Sit back and find out what you are going to do with your car...
Are 600-700 whp evo's reliable, I think they can be, but if you don't upgrade everything in that car then you have a much higher rate of failure. Also about driving style.
my personal car - I wanted 500 / 500 and I came very very close - 501 and 485. I could easily have made some changes and gotten there however wallet gave out so I was very content with those numbers for my setup. my setup is 2.3 with a 50trim running 30lbs of boost with 100% meth...
Also, who came up with cars making 400 on a dyno jet don't last?! I made 499 on AMS dyno and the car before I did the stroker was 30k miles plus?!
I like the abilities of a T3 turbo, if you get bored with a turbo and where it kicks in, its much less expensive at that point to upgrade it. Pretty simply, buy a new turbo.. Otherwise if you don't like the black - then your back to a WHOLE kit again...
If it was up to me, a T3 is the way to go, best of luck to ya..... I will never own anything different.
Evolved Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
From: IL
They real question is why are they blowing?!
A Green shouldn't be blowing motors but if you beat the **** out of, have a bad tune, bad gas..... there are sooo many factors as to why a motor blows that you can't simply say it has a green turbo and thats the reason.
With a good tune and supporting mods, a black would be fine on the stock block, may not be as much fun as it would be on a built motor with high boost....
A Green shouldn't be blowing motors but if you beat the **** out of, have a bad tune, bad gas..... there are sooo many factors as to why a motor blows that you can't simply say it has a green turbo and thats the reason.
With a good tune and supporting mods, a black would be fine on the stock block, may not be as much fun as it would be on a built motor with high boost....
the turbos that are a bit larger:
Can achieve greater hp at lower boost with good spool (black or t3)
less stress on the turbo, like people blowing motors with a green at 33 psi
potential to be "unlocked" after built block
if the fear of damaging the motor on stock block is so high, simply detune the car for lower boost. surely you can turn it up more than the stock evo turbo. youll get good gains, coupled with cams and a tune and when you make some money, build your block and up the boost, retune.
bingo
all the upgrades for the evo exist to handle such high hp applications, > 500 whp, but i dont see it as practical. if the car is rated for 280 hp or so and you try to double it, then ofcourse the life of your car will go down unless you reenforce the car to that of a carrerra turbo or something as mentioned earlier.
stiffened chassis,
stronger transmission
rebuild transfercase
build bottom end
build block
ignition system
double pumper fuel system
throttle body
chassis strengthening
replace any soft bushings
any suspension settings
check brakes to make sure you can stop!
thats just a tip of the iceberge if you want a reliable 800 whp car, if that even makes any sense. who can say they drove a t3 kit for 120k miles with over 500 whp the whole time???
i'd be shocked if 1 person responds, unless they did many modifications to support such stress. If there are many out there, then the evo truly is a car that is a "LEGEND of Engineering" more than it already is.
Can achieve greater hp at lower boost with good spool (black or t3)
less stress on the turbo, like people blowing motors with a green at 33 psi
potential to be "unlocked" after built block
if the fear of damaging the motor on stock block is so high, simply detune the car for lower boost. surely you can turn it up more than the stock evo turbo. youll get good gains, coupled with cams and a tune and when you make some money, build your block and up the boost, retune.
bingo
all the upgrades for the evo exist to handle such high hp applications, > 500 whp, but i dont see it as practical. if the car is rated for 280 hp or so and you try to double it, then ofcourse the life of your car will go down unless you reenforce the car to that of a carrerra turbo or something as mentioned earlier.
stiffened chassis,
stronger transmission
rebuild transfercase
build bottom end
build block
ignition system
double pumper fuel system
throttle body
chassis strengthening
replace any soft bushings
any suspension settings
check brakes to make sure you can stop!
thats just a tip of the iceberge if you want a reliable 800 whp car, if that even makes any sense. who can say they drove a t3 kit for 120k miles with over 500 whp the whole time???
i'd be shocked if 1 person responds, unless they did many modifications to support such stress. If there are many out there, then the evo truly is a car that is a "LEGEND of Engineering" more than it already is.
Last edited by Broham; Feb 24, 2010 at 02:37 PM.