Dump vs reg. o2 housing on FP Turbos
Unfortunately, with the FP Black and 93 pump, 650 WHP won't happen.
I made 466 WHP running 93 pump on a mustang dyno, which is roughly 520 WHP on a dynojet. This was on a built 2.0, ported head, ported intake/exhaust manifold, running 34 PSI boost which tapered to 29 PSI by 8500 RPM.
I'm hoping to make 580-600 WHP on E85 running 40 PSI. I'll probably only run at this level while racing, on the street I'll probably take it easy. I have a feeling either my tranny or transfer case won't last long at that power level.
Also, be prepared to drop big amounts of money
-Bink
I made 466 WHP running 93 pump on a mustang dyno, which is roughly 520 WHP on a dynojet. This was on a built 2.0, ported head, ported intake/exhaust manifold, running 34 PSI boost which tapered to 29 PSI by 8500 RPM.
I'm hoping to make 580-600 WHP on E85 running 40 PSI. I'll probably only run at this level while racing, on the street I'll probably take it easy. I have a feeling either my tranny or transfer case won't last long at that power level.
Also, be prepared to drop big amounts of money
-Bink
I realized its not going to be cheap which is why I started playing the lotto lol
Last edited by gymnasty; Jan 10, 2012 at 09:10 PM.
650 is a tall order. Maybe a 2.4 could do it with ever mod ever made ever. The black has been maxed at 700WHP but you guys just want power under the curve. This is why i went with teh Red. The lag is there but is 500 less than the Black so it is a perfect compromise. My buddy in his VIII and his ancient HKS 272 setup trapped at over 130MPH with an OG Green and METH so parts combination is a must, not always the biigest turbo wins and he has only 200 RPMS more lag than a Stock IX turbo, immagien how fun that car is! That is Super Car quick would run with an ENZO (until maybe 120MPH were areodynamics and gearing take effects) but you get my point.
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Those are some nice numbers you've made so far! I can only imagine how sweet that must pull. I think it's possible to make 650whp on e85 with a build 2.0 what do you think? As far as the Tcase and tranny it might or it might not hold who knows guess it all depends on how much beating you give it
I realized its not going to be cheap which is why I started playing the lotto lol
I realized its not going to be cheap which is why I started playing the lotto lol
Hoping my last two mods (3 port boost controller and that MAP down pipe) will add a few more horsepower.
My plan for the summer is to learn to drive with the added power. If I don't have a 10 second pass this summer, not only will I be surprised, I'll be disappointed. Mostly, because that means I'm a terrible driver.
-Bink
650 is a tall order. Maybe a 2.4 could do it with ever mod ever made ever. The black has been maxed at 700WHP but you guys just want power under the curve. This is why i went with teh Red. The lag is there but is 500 less than the Black so it is a perfect compromise. My buddy in his VIII and his ancient HKS 272 setup trapped at over 130MPH with an OG Green and METH so parts combination is a must, not always the biigest turbo wins and he has only 200 RPMS more lag than a Stock IX turbo, immagien how fun that car is! That is Super Car quick would run with an ENZO (until maybe 120MPH were areodynamics and gearing take effects) but you get my point.
650whp has been done more than once on a 2.0l (Fully Built of Course) A 2.4l will make 625-650 fairly easy on E85 with moderate mods. I make 750whp on my DBB Black so it has went well over 700whp... The lag between a Red/Black is much less than 500rpm. Try more like 100-200 depending on your setup. You can't feel the difference on the street either, only can you see it on a dyno. In a lot of cases to see the lag you have to switch the dyno into speed vise rpm.
Mikey
I disagree with a lot in your post sir.
650whp has been done more than once on a 2.0l (Fully Built of Course) A 2.4l will make 625-650 fairly easy on E85 with moderate mods. I make 750whp on my DBB Black so it has went well over 700whp... The lag between a Red/Black is much less than 500rpm. Try more like 100-200 depending on your setup. You can't feel the difference on the street either, only can you see it on a dyno. In a lot of cases to see the lag you have to switch the dyno into speed vise rpm.
Mikey
650whp has been done more than once on a 2.0l (Fully Built of Course) A 2.4l will make 625-650 fairly easy on E85 with moderate mods. I make 750whp on my DBB Black so it has went well over 700whp... The lag between a Red/Black is much less than 500rpm. Try more like 100-200 depending on your setup. You can't feel the difference on the street either, only can you see it on a dyno. In a lot of cases to see the lag you have to switch the dyno into speed vise rpm.
Mikey
.Lag however I believe is greater than the 100-200. Atleast from what I saw on the JB units, I have no idea on the BB units.
I am sure it is possable. It has been done with Single scroll larger fram turbos. A 42R would certainly do it
What people tend to forget is it isn't PEAK power but power under the curve. Torque & HP in a careful dance. The FP Turbos do that and give you a LOT of torque.
What people tend to forget is it isn't PEAK power but power under the curve. Torque & HP in a careful dance. The FP Turbos do that and give you a LOT of torque.
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You basically want a straight pipe off the turbo as the turbo itself is an obvious restriction. The Full Turbo Kits get around this issue because the good ones (AMS, BUSCHUR, ETS) have custom piping right off the turbo, most likely 3 inches.
Any stock frame turbo is bound to its stock sized 02 housing, so even though your 3.0" downpipe is for the most part 3 inches, it must neck down to fit the stock turbo. You are also limited to the flow and boost control abilities of the stock 02 housing. You can port it even a ported unit doesn't flow as well as an ebay 02 housing as shown by buschur, he still sells them I believe.
This is where the proper 02 dumps come in. They are really known as 02 Eliminators. They first and foremost defeat boost creep and increase the exhaust outlet by a half of an inch which is a lot.
Finally you get the dump. The dump is ideal for power and boost control because it completely divorces the wastegate exhaust from the engine exhaust. You are dumping into atmospheric pressure Vs. the exhaust back pressure; far less effort. All this makes your exhaust more efficient for 5 reasons.
1. Larger exhaust, more room for flow, generally much straighter and mandrel bent for superior flow.
2. Exhaust is separated so less exhaust gas actually flows through the exhaust pipe as you are dumping a good amount of gasses when WOT or in boost. This is great when you up teh boost and have more flow.
3. Superior boost control as the wastegate does not have to compete with the exhaust gas.
4. Less turbulence in the exhaust as you are not bypassing the exhaust wheel only to dump it back into the exhaust stream.
5. Faster spool-up, less restriction, less spool-up time. You all learned this as soon as you did any exhaust modification.
Anyone running a stock frame turbo should run these 02 Eliminators. The benefits are too numerous and immediate to ignore. If you REALLY can’t handle the sound (ONLY WOT BTW) then get a unit that plumbs back into the down pipe, at least you’ll have everything else described above save for that.
That’s it, [/End Thread]
Any stock frame turbo is bound to its stock sized 02 housing, so even though your 3.0" downpipe is for the most part 3 inches, it must neck down to fit the stock turbo. You are also limited to the flow and boost control abilities of the stock 02 housing. You can port it even a ported unit doesn't flow as well as an ebay 02 housing as shown by buschur, he still sells them I believe.
This is where the proper 02 dumps come in. They are really known as 02 Eliminators. They first and foremost defeat boost creep and increase the exhaust outlet by a half of an inch which is a lot.
Finally you get the dump. The dump is ideal for power and boost control because it completely divorces the wastegate exhaust from the engine exhaust. You are dumping into atmospheric pressure Vs. the exhaust back pressure; far less effort. All this makes your exhaust more efficient for 5 reasons.
1. Larger exhaust, more room for flow, generally much straighter and mandrel bent for superior flow.
2. Exhaust is separated so less exhaust gas actually flows through the exhaust pipe as you are dumping a good amount of gasses when WOT or in boost. This is great when you up teh boost and have more flow.
3. Superior boost control as the wastegate does not have to compete with the exhaust gas.
4. Less turbulence in the exhaust as you are not bypassing the exhaust wheel only to dump it back into the exhaust stream.
5. Faster spool-up, less restriction, less spool-up time. You all learned this as soon as you did any exhaust modification.
Anyone running a stock frame turbo should run these 02 Eliminators. The benefits are too numerous and immediate to ignore. If you REALLY can’t handle the sound (ONLY WOT BTW) then get a unit that plumbs back into the down pipe, at least you’ll have everything else described above save for that.
That’s it, [/End Thread]
Last edited by High_PSI; Jan 18, 2012 at 11:01 AM.
You basically want a straight pipe off the turbo as the turbo itself is an obvious restriction. The Full Turbo Kits get around this issue because the good ones (AMS, BUSCHUR, ETS) have custom piping right off the turbo, most likely 3 inches.
Any stock frame turbo is bound to its stock sized 02 housing, so even though your 3.0" downpipe is for the most part 3 inches, it must neck down to fit the stock turbo. You are also limited to the flow and boost control abilities of the stock 02 housing. You can port it even a ported unit doesn't flow as well as an ebay 02 housing as shown by buschur, he still sells them I believe.
This is where the proper 02 dumps come in. They are really known as 02 Eliminators. They first and foremost defeat boost creep and increase the exhaust outlet by a half of an inch which is a lot.
Finally you get the dump. The dump is ideal for power and boost control because it completely divorces the wastegate exhaust from the engine exhaust. You are dumping into atmospheric pressure Vs. the exhaust back pressure; far less effort. All this makes your exhaust more efficient for 5 reasons.
1. Larger exhaust, more room for flow, generally much straighter and mandrel bent for superior flow.
2. Exhaust is separated so less exhaust gas actually flows through the exhaust pipe as you are dumping a good amount of gasses when WOT or in boost. This is great when you up teh boost and have more flow.
3. Superior boost control as the wastegate does not have to compete with the exhaust gas.
4. Less turbulence in the exhaust as you are not bypassing the exhaust wheel only to dump it back into the exhaust stream.
5. Faster spool-up, less restriction, less spool-up time. You all learned this as soon as you did any exhaust modification.
Anyone running a stock frame turbo should run these 02 Eliminators. The benefits are too numerous and immediate to ignore. If you REALLY can’t handle the sound (ONLY WOT BTW) then get a unit that plumbs back into the down pipe, at least you’ll have everything else described above save for that.
That’s it, [/End Thread]
Any stock frame turbo is bound to its stock sized 02 housing, so even though your 3.0" downpipe is for the most part 3 inches, it must neck down to fit the stock turbo. You are also limited to the flow and boost control abilities of the stock 02 housing. You can port it even a ported unit doesn't flow as well as an ebay 02 housing as shown by buschur, he still sells them I believe.
This is where the proper 02 dumps come in. They are really known as 02 Eliminators. They first and foremost defeat boost creep and increase the exhaust outlet by a half of an inch which is a lot.
Finally you get the dump. The dump is ideal for power and boost control because it completely divorces the wastegate exhaust from the engine exhaust. You are dumping into atmospheric pressure Vs. the exhaust back pressure; far less effort. All this makes your exhaust more efficient for 5 reasons.
1. Larger exhaust, more room for flow, generally much straighter and mandrel bent for superior flow.
2. Exhaust is separated so less exhaust gas actually flows through the exhaust pipe as you are dumping a good amount of gasses when WOT or in boost. This is great when you up teh boost and have more flow.
3. Superior boost control as the wastegate does not have to compete with the exhaust gas.
4. Less turbulence in the exhaust as you are not bypassing the exhaust wheel only to dump it back into the exhaust stream.
5. Faster spool-up, less restriction, less spool-up time. You all learned this as soon as you did any exhaust modification.
Anyone running a stock frame turbo should run these 02 Eliminators. The benefits are too numerous and immediate to ignore. If you REALLY can’t handle the sound (ONLY WOT BTW) then get a unit that plumbs back into the down pipe, at least you’ll have everything else described above save for that.
That’s it, [/End Thread]
great explaination, thanks
Ive got a map o2 eliminator and ya its a little loud when u push down on the loud pedal, but im not a girl so it doesnt bother me Ive also got a full 3 in with test pipe and a straight through silencer so it's a little louder than stock.....
Ive also got a full 3 in with test pipe and a straight through silencer so it's a little louder than stock.....
Last edited by gpfury86; Jan 18, 2012 at 10:34 PM.