Long story short.....after installing a 3" turbo back and a Vishnu Xede with a stage 0+ map, my Evo would not idle when the engine was cold. It would just die out, unless you gave it gas until it warmed up then it would idle at 900 rpm. After a $800 bill from the White Plains Mitsu dealer and 3 Xede units.....the car still wouldn't idle right. So we decided to pay a visit to Pruven Peformance and Al.

HERE ARE THE DYNO RESULTS: RED= XEDE, BLUE= DYNOFLASH



The car was brought into Pruven Performance with the xede installed and running. It was then dynoed with the xede (274whp), stock (244whp), and dynoflashed ( 272whp). Needless to say, I was surprised at the results: 1) the stage 0+ map was making the car run so lean with detonation. 2) Al was able to squeeze out as much power, if not more with less boost and a richer fuel curve.

The funny part is that the idle problem was fixed simply by adjusting the idle motor (thanks to the Pruven Performance Techs)

* I didn't make this thread to start another battle* Both Vishnu and Al did their best to help me out and I'd like to thank both parts for their efforts

 

12.2 compared to 11.2 A/F. Same power with the dynoflash making more throughout the powerband. Good job Al!

 

another reason why i am going down to see Al when i get all my goodies in. The anticipation is killing me! Staying stock until i can get all the parts on and tuned right by the man.

 

Thanks !! One more point to consider - we did it on 1.5 psi less boost - the Exede controls the boost and you can raise the peak boost while the Dyno Flash only delays boost taper and does not raise the peak boost.

Also - the Exede has a knock sensor "adjustment" which we do not alter - which in this case allowed the Exede to run 20 degrees of timing at 6500 on 12.4 a/f's and with knock counts as high as we have seen- not a wise combination on pump gas.

Also - the little hump on spool up at approx 4700 which you can see on both curves is due to the boost line "PILL" removal which apparently Vishnu advises clients to REMOVE. While removing this restrictor from the boost solinoid line will slightly raise peak boost, it does cause some slight boost spiking as it comes onto full boost. While you see it in the dyno sheet clearly in 3rd gear pulls you do NOT feel it that much in the seat of the pants. However - on 4th gear highway while loading up the boost at low rpms you do get boost spikes with the pill removed. WE DO NOT recomend taking out the boose pill, this clinet has lost the pill and therefore we had no choice but to run it as is.

I drove this car before and after we tuned it and the transformation was like night and day on the spool up - you could really feel those 30 ft lbs of trq.

Although I must say it was also qucik when it came in - so quick that I was honestly nervous that our safe tune might make less power - especially after I saw the 274 whp mark on the Exede with such few mods. While we did try like crazy to make 280 whp to beat the Exede whp peak number - it just wasn't there with safe margin's of error and the most we could run safely was 273.


BTW - this guy's other mods were a full 3" exhuast and stock cat with K & N panel filter.

Finally - and honestly - we asked for a compression test on this guy's car after I saw the a/f curve - running that lean on pump gas is insane and the knock meter was showing more detonation than we have ever seen on any evo. When the car left there was ZERO knock ativity what so ever. While I am sure that a Vishnu custom tuned Exede would have done much better against our product, the results we witnessed with our own eyes on this car were very VERY dangerous.

Maybe this result will once and for all silence some of the Vishnu gang of Dyno Flash bashers?

PS - thanks to the car owner for having confidence in us and allowing us a chance to conduct this amazing test. This is the most fun I have had in weeks - thanks again man and enjoy that EVO!

 

Al, What kind of power are you getting with 264/272 cams and a turbo back exhaust? Also Shiv says NOT to change the intake, I wonder if that was screwing up the xede?

 

I am on the road now - I will send you some dyno sheets when I get back. Usually we see between 314 - 330 at the wheels on pump gas with safe a/f's - the biggest gains I get are down low on the trq. I have spend hundreds of hours mapping the cam tunes and they spool very hard down low. We saw 75 ft lbs more trq on the same car we had previously tuned with just a SFAC.

BTW - Rollaway made a 11.80 at 119 with the dyno flashed ecu, 264 cams, 660 injectors, ebc, Buchur 3" turbo back and fmic and pruven fuel pres reg. He had made 332 to the wheels a few days before when he got tuned. That time was with no nos.

 

I don't understand why you would want to change the knock correction maps. I take it Shiv doesen't like tuning using an OBD2 logger.

 

Just edited this post. Al, I have a lot of respect for you and your work. I am a Vishnu customer and would like to point out that this thread shouldn't have been titled "Dynoflash v. Xede" because it wasn't a fair comparison. Would you like one of your customers to show up at Shiv's place with his car tuned out of whack with mods that may have thrown your custom dyno tune out balance? I know you didn't start this thread, but you seem more than happy to play along.

I ask you: Have any of your customers tinkered with their motors and thrown what you did for them out of whack? Probably.

By the way, I'm glad you are feeling OK from that CO poisoning. Happy holidays.

 

I'm guessing Al didn't force his customer to post this up.

 

Uhhh... He is not the one who started the thread!

To me, both products still are excellent in their own merits.

 

Good results AL but the reason this thing was lean is the K&N filter erroring the MAF as well as using a stage 0 map (which is for an xede and a catback) If he was by chance using the stage 0 with DP map then it should be closer. Also there is no replacement for a custom tune! I dont know how much shiv has put into the lower stage basemaps, but it is also up to the end user to adjust the boost max appropriatley and not use MAF error producing filters!! I dont know why people insist on this as the whole concept of tuning is based on the MAF

 

Hey guys, just got back in......good point, this probably wasn't a fair comparison because my car was running like butt. I'm not sure what went wrong, maybe my car just wasn't compatible with the xede for some odd reason. Because after installing it my car just would not idle correctly when cold, so my first xede was swapped out for another. It actually ran very strong, comparable to Al's custom tune according to my butt dyno , but it still wouldn't idle correctly. After that we decided to take over to the dealer, that ended up rapping me for $800 and i was still left with an idle problem. At this point Shiv was nice enough to over night me another xede (for the third time, thanks very much Shiv!), and like before, the idle still was crappy. So finally i ended up at pruven to see what they could do for me......i guess you can see the results up top.

Maybe it was good that my car's idle was off, because i wouldn't have have known my car's a/f was running that lean had i not gotten dynoed. Like i said before I respect both sides, and I'm very greatful for all the assistance they have given me....Shiv over nighting xedes and harnesses across the country and Al for squeezing me in for some dyno time and getting me awesome results

 

Sorry about that, a stock air filter was actually used with the first 2 xede's and i forgot to put it back in after installing the 3rd . But as for the Map, it was actually the stage 0 plus map that was put up recently on the vishnu website on 11/10 i believe.

 

Couldnt have said it better.

 

Kind of a bogus test really. A base map Xede vs a Dynoflash? On a base stage 0 map the maf is seeing only at the most -3.5 airflow. And thats at 6500 and 7000rpm. Its also taking away a little timing to boot. I just cant see how that is resulting in those high *** AFRs. I can run up to -15 or so before I start seeing anything close to 11.7:1.

I will take some AFR's for that base map, and see what it is for my car. My aux input for my wideband isnt here yet, but I can still see what the AFR is at 6 and 7k.