I am not attacking you man, If I wanted V8 Trq that is what I would of bought, I want a road race car and that = a high redline with peak power as high to that redline as I can get it with a line going up from 3500-7500 for HP, and TQ keeping as flat as I can get it. Why not get a smoth TQ curve? I know that spike will feel fast kind of like stock and that nice 3500 hit then it dies after 5000.

 

"No professionally built and sponsored car is tuned without a dyno. Then they tune driving conditions too. Maybe not having one or reasonable access at an affordable price is what happens when you alienate people on a wholesale basis..."

Heh. Sorry but the Buschur car was tuned AEM not on a dyno...the one that ran 11.6 stock turbo. Ouch

 

I can get on a dyno anytime I want - I have one right down the road and I have hundreds of hours tuning Evos logged in on it

Bottom line is when you are mostly doing reflashes on stock evos, and mildly modified ones - where you are seeing the same combination of parts over and over - its faster - easier and more accurate to dial in the a/f's on the street.

In reality - I can get the same tune on the street or on the dyno - the result is identical

I just prefer to do it on the road and "feel" the results with my fat butt dyno rather than watch it on a screen

Basically for my local clients I give them the option

 

The Dyno I am talking about was around $150,000 or more if I remember correctly.

 

NOT to metion that my world's fastest EVO 8 that just went 11.505 in the 1/4 mile was tuned in about 15 mins making passes up and down the street in front of the drag strip - - - AND my 124 mph WRX with street tires was also tuned on the road and at the track

Bottom line is if you know how to tune you can tune on the road or on the dyno just as effectively

 

We are talking about a RACE car, not some hack job that runs for 12 seconds. Look at MB, Ferrari, and P-cars. They are are Engine dyno tuned. When was the last time you got passed by the Ferrari F1 car on the why home when he was street tuning it to 240 mph for the 24 hour race he had that weekend?

 

You make do with what you have... Real experience can go a long way as opposed to Al who was into subaru's until recently and learned a software program. Tuners have been making dsm's fly for a while and make do with what they got. Besides, just because you can tune without a dyno doesn't make it ideal in any way except cost.

 

They dyno those cars in lab's...wtf is your point? Last time I checked Ferrari's F1 budget was several MILLION dollars.

 

I do have to say that if you have tuned a lot of cars a evo with a turbo back and a intake on 93 is going to be pretty close no matter where you go. I just like the dyno myself because that is what I always tuned on and I am not a fan of going too fast on the street but I know what you are saying about you can load the car up some, or do what I used to do and drive with both feet and load up the breaks some. :-) Kinda cheezy but it did work some until the pads start to smoke anyway.

 

When it comes to tuning any car - what you want is a flat power band from the trq peak as low as possible all the way up to the red line - the more area you can fill in under the curve the more flexable and fast the car will be

BTW - my own evo pulls out to a clean 9,000 rpms but also has mega low end spool up

How would you like a 3rd gear like this ?

 

Just saying that dyno tuning is the BEST way to go if you log everything, I see Al has done 100's of cars so I am sure he know's what is going on but I am just saying the dyno is the TRUE test of what is going on, it's on the screen and does not "feel" how much power you are making, it knows when, where, and how much.

 

Now THAT is a damn good dyno pull. Why can you not get that on the evo's you tune with just less HP?

 

Right - better to go with Shiv was was also into Subaru's until recently and also was tuning with unchips!!!

Hey - last time I checked they have only been selling Evos here since last February - - I got mine the day it rolled off the boat and have been constantly working on it ever since - including building a few motors and a host of other serious investigations. I think i have as much Evo experience as any other shop in the US

 

Cams, bigger valves, ported head - etc all make for more breathing on top - not to mention a bigger turbo

 

Al,

Tuning is tuning... you need the car under load and doing it in the controlled environment of a dyno or on the street with enough runs can get you there.

I just have a problem with your criticizing someone using a dyno as if it is inferior to you stuffing your pockets and collecting more money to cut your overhead without one. Give a discount if you don't run a dyno at least.

For God's sake you call yourself: "DYNOFLASH".

I am sure you can do a similar job btw on or off the dyno but you should pass the saving on to your customers....