Notices
Evo Engine / Turbo / Drivetrain Everything from engine management to the best clutch and flywheel.

New BW EFR Turbo Thread

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 7, 2012 | 12:53 PM
  #2296  
Mark S's Avatar
Evolving Member
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
From: England
Originally Posted by project_skyline
480hp at the flywheel from 37 psi? Seems fairly low.
Its at the wheel 480hp its 612hp at the flywheel.

Mark
Reply
Old Dec 7, 2012 | 10:20 PM
  #2297  
Dave W.'s Avatar
Evolving Member
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 143
Likes: 1
From: SF Bay Area
2.4 pressure ratio is 20.5psi.
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 03:40 AM
  #2298  
kutija's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: croatia
Originally Posted by Dave W.
2.4 pressure ratio is 20.5psi.
I think on the graph it's not absolute pressure so this is around 37 psi of boost.
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 05:25 AM
  #2299  
chetrickerman's Avatar
Evolved Member
Veteran: Army
iTrader: (7)
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 575
Likes: 1
From: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted by Dave W.
2.4 pressure ratio is 20.5psi.
2.4 bar is 35.28 psi.

pressure ratio is defined as the ratio of the stagnation pressure as measured at the front and rear of the compressor
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 06:23 AM
  #2300  
Texas_Ace's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Texas
I am curious, he made 612whp in the earlier dyno he posted at an unknown boost level.

He then posts the 480hp dyno showing 2.4bar boost (or as pointed out above, ~37psi).

So how did he go from 480whp @ 35psi to 612whp? Didn't look like the turbo had much more boost in it, so where did the extra power come from?

Something is not adding up IMHO.

Last edited by Texas_Ace; Dec 8, 2012 at 02:28 PM.
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 07:29 AM
  #2301  
Talx's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Israel
Originally Posted by Texas_Ace
I am curious, he made 612whp in the earlier dyno he posted at an unknown boost level.

He then posts the 480hp dyno showing 2.4bar boost (or as pointed out above, ~35psi).

So how did he go from 480whp @ 35psi to 612whp? Didn't look like the turbo had much more boost in it, so where did the extra power come from?

Something is not adding up IMHO.

this is why

Originally Posted by Mark S
Its at the wheel 480hp its 612hp at the flywheel.

Mark
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 08:39 AM
  #2302  
Texas_Ace's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Originally Posted by Talx
this is why
Ahh, Missed that, didn't see there was another page.
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 02:15 PM
  #2303  
Talonboost's Avatar
Evolving Member
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 491
Likes: 1
From: Redmond Washington
Originally Posted by Mark S
Its at the wheel 480hp its 612hp at the flywheel.
Mark
Ok, academic question here: 480 is about 21.57 percent off of 612. That sounds pretty reasonable to me. Can anybody explain how this is arrived at? Does it somehow come from measurements on the particular car in the test? Or is this more like a rule of thumb that is arrived at from other data? Or what?
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 10:08 PM
  #2304  
Ang Wen Yan's Avatar
Evolved Member
 
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,552
Likes: 1
From: KL,Malaysia
Originally Posted by Talonboost
Ok, academic question here: 480 is about 21.57 percent off of 612. That sounds pretty reasonable to me. Can anybody explain how this is arrived at? Does it somehow come from measurements on the particular car in the test? Or is this more like a rule of thumb that is arrived at from other data? Or what?
Dyno Dynamics workout loss by having a ramp down run after a dyno run is conclude to figure out the mechanical drag and add it back into the on wheel figure to obtain flywheel hp
Same goes to Dastek dyno
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 10:32 PM
  #2305  
JohnBradley's Avatar
Evolved Member
Shutterbug
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (30)
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 11,406
Likes: 78
From: Northwest
So for fun and profit figure out how many BTU 132bhp lost through the drivetrain is and how fast it would heat 3 quarts of 75/85
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 10:39 PM
  #2306  
n2oiroc's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (33)
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,180
Likes: 5
From: milwaukee, wi
i dont buy a static % of loss. i think its really close to a fixed # with a small multiplier. say 40hp loss x .05% for each additional horsepower added.
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 11:07 PM
  #2307  
Talonboost's Avatar
Evolving Member
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 491
Likes: 1
From: Redmond Washington
Originally Posted by Ang Wen Yan
Dyno Dynamics workout loss by having a ramp down run after a dyno run is conclude to figure out the mechanical drag and add it back into the on wheel figure to obtain flywheel hp
Same goes to Dastek dyno
During that ramp down I suppose you have to put the clutch in or put it in neutral to remove engine drag, then the dyno can figure out how much the drive train is dragging? - wait a minute, that's just drag with very little load, right? I guess I don't get it. How does that tell you how much power is lost when the whole drivetrain is under full load?
Reply
Old Dec 8, 2012 | 11:46 PM
  #2308  
bsh's Avatar
bsh
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 261
Likes: 3
From: Norway
I believe there is no way finding engine power unless you have it on a engine dyno. Use the dyno as a tool and use the same dyno to compare if you have done changes.
Reply
Old Dec 9, 2012 | 01:35 AM
  #2309  
Talx's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
From: Israel
not only that, but also there is a large amount of power lost because of the friction between the tires and the dyno rollers

by the way a loss of 132 hp which is about 100 KW is enough energy to probably melt the transmission, so I wouldn't think that there is such a large amount of energy absorbed into the drive system

I have never really calculated the dynamics of a dyno but if I would have to guess from my experience I would assume that lose of power is more of an exponential graph of percentage loss, meaning the more power you make the less you lose up to a limit. people are using a liner calculation with the percent of loss as the divergent which in no way models the realistic situation

Last edited by Talx; Dec 9, 2012 at 03:57 AM.
Reply
Old Dec 9, 2012 | 05:39 AM
  #2310  
Texas_Ace's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
From: Texas
HP to BTU calculator : http://convert.web-max.ca/index.php?select=58

132hp = 5602.08 BTU/min

Or 93 BTU/second.

So over a ~7 second dyno pull it is putting 650 BTU's into the drivetrain.

For anyone not fermiluar with BTU's, a BTU is how much energy it takes to raise the temp of a pound of water 1 degree.

So 650 BTU's is in theory enough energy to raise the temps of all the drivetrain fluids a few hundred degrees in a single dyno pull.

Only way I trust crank HP numbers is if it is on an engine dyno.
Reply



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:14 AM.