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Are you sure about that? I mean I get what youre saying and I had a similar thought but I thought that is part of the risk? Actually just reread the thread and it seems thats exactly what he did in that block remained in the car...
Its possible without any harm to hone the block with the crank installed and inside the car.
Its not an traditional Hone as many expect, its only to rough the surface and get rid of the glaze areas.
I built my own "plug" ...its sitting on top of the crank counterweights facing up , at the very lower end of the bore, sealed by an o-ring, and an flexible "upper" Lip. Its built from Teflon material, so its more or less pressed in. It has an drain in the middle like an funnel with an drain line, so cleaning is possible...
Picture of the first version, "Delrin" material later changed to Teflon for better seal to the walls and with o-ring. Hone plug
Its not intended to remove Scratches....its only to give new rings an Surface to bed in...
Its also not possible to get an "out of round" liner back to spec, so no geometric change possible.
Any Real Damage to the walls will need an proper machine hone ( then the PTW clearance are out ) or an Bore/Hone job aka Full built
Last edited by german_evoVII; Oct 23, 2017 at 10:24 AM.
My engine was out of the car but the crank and balance shafts were still in the block when I did my drop ins. I honed the cylinder walls with a ball hone on a drill. Just have to be sure to wipe down everything very very liberally with brake clean, wd40, and oil a couple of times. Being thorough is key, take your time to ensure everything is clean.
I'm at a bit over 3k miles on my drop ins and the engine has consumed pretty much no oil. That's also largely in part though because my out of round and taper in every bore was under .001".
Going back to 03 -06 folks did do drop ins with the block remaining in the car, seen multiple threads on here with it being done back then. However, these were on engines with very low mileage and the factory cross hatching was near perfect on the cyl walls still
A backyard hone job done wrong is worse than no hone job at all.
I've also yet to see a 4G63 block that doesn't still have a cross hatch.
If there's no cross hatch left, it's because it's done a lot of miles tuned wrong.
Like ****ty old V8s which have 0.015 inch bore wear due to having a carburettor and lots of cold starts.
A backyard hone job done wrong is worse than no hone job at all.
I've also yet to see a 4G63 block that doesn't still have a cross hatch.
If there's no cross hatch left, it's because it's done a lot of miles tuned wrong.
Like ****ty old V8s which have 0.015 inch bore wear due to having a carburettor and lots of cold starts.
The presence of a visible cross hatch doesn't mean that its capable of seating a new set of rings. If the peaks of the cross hatch are gone (which is what happens during break-in), then they loose their ability to seat the rings.
I'm at only 9k miles on stock motor. I figure if tolerances are okay it'd save a large amount of cash to do cams and drop ins as opposed to machine shop and cams separate and trans clutch all at once. Either way it's good your motor has held up over 4 years and solid use none the less
The presence of a visible cross hatch doesn't mean that its capable of seating a new set of rings. If the peaks of the cross hatch are gone (which is what happens during break-in), then they loose their ability to seat the rings.
Who says you have to use new rings?
If you want stronger pistons and it's not burning oil, the rings are OK so you reuse them on the new pistons.
No hone required.
It's been done many times.
Even then new rings work on an existing bore.
A hone job done wrong (very common)......it's still worse than no hone job.
A power hone always gets the angle right because the up and down stroke of the hone is geared to the rotation of it.
A hand drill with a ball hone will ALWAYS be wrong.
Just the same as MLS headgaskets can be reused more than once without problems.
If you've never done it, you won't know.
It's the head and block surfaces that have to be perfect first.
It makes it a cheap DIY job.
Last edited by RightSaid fred; Oct 31, 2017 at 06:48 PM.
Pretty much any respectable engine builder... The rings wear to the piston as well as the cylinder wall. By putting worn rings onto a new piston you risk higher chances of them fluttering, not rotating, or possibly blowby issues.
A hand drill with a ball hone will ALWAYS be wrong.
A ball hone on a drill will always be better than no hone. If you're using a ball hone to the extent that you can wear all of the way through the original crosshatch you shouldn't be touching an engine. By the way, I'm at over 4k miles on my ball honed drop in build. Doesn't consume any oil, no blowby issues either.
The ONLY time I'd ever recommend someone to reuse rings is if they aren't touching the bore or changing pistons. Piston rings are usually ~$100/set. It's cheap insurance to throw in new ones and have the bores honed.
Quote from somewhere else....well from speedtalk actually.
Originally Posted by Vee-Dizzie post_id=696150 time=1509558803 user_id=29956
Originally Posted by "David Vizard" post_id=696142 time=1509555149 user_id=25346
Slightly aside but here is an interesting bit of ring info I got straight from the 'Grump'. 'The second set of rings on a bore always make more power!'
[*]The third makes 5 more horsepower than the 2nd set! Not many people have been there though!
.......Vincent Dizziano
So.........if you're ball honing it for new rings.....you're doing it wrong.
According to DV.
But you probably don't know who he is?
