LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Well, there ya go.

Ayoustin

iTrader: (2)

I actually lol'ed. Thank you.

mrfred

iTrader: (50)

Fascinating. A few posts ago, you said, "A backyard hone job done wrong is worse than no hone job at all.", implying that a proper hone is better than either a hand hone or no hone job at all. Now you seem to be suggesting that not touching the bore is better than a proper hone. And I am puzzled by the notion that a remnant hone can actually seat the rings, and yet at the same time, not cause existing rings to seat as best as possible. At any rate, I probably should not have said anything because you'll undoubtedly reply back to further indicate that I'm totally clueless.

RightSaid fred

Maybe we need to go back to the start and discuss what a hone is for?

When you bore a block , it's done with a single point which leaves a very rough finish.
The last 2 thousandths of an inch is normally taken off with a hone. That takes off all the high spots and leaves a nice cross hatch at the correct angle.

I've actually got first hand experience boring blocks too as well as grinding cranks......and doing lots of other things.


When you pull apart an engine, a modern one, there's still a cross hatch there. If it's a good engine there will be no marks on the bore apart from the cross hatch.

If the engine has had some sort of failure, like a bad tune which caused the pistons to get too hot, the bores will be marked a bit and re honing is a good idea even though it measures OK. It'll remove any marks which aren't too deep and at the same time give a bit more P to B clearance.

There's 3 ways to do a hone job.
Number one is with the proper machine which always gets the correct cross hatch.
Number 2 is with a portable hone which still uses the proper stones. It's used with the engine in the car.
Only a trained professional can get the angle right doing it by hand. You need a drill that's at least 1500W and you need to stand up on top of the engine to do it. Once you understand this then you might understand about no 3.
Number 3 is the ball hone isn't the correct tool. Don't even waste your time trying.
When you get the angle of the cross hatch wrong........or too deep........it smokes and burns oil.

If you pull apart a good engine and there's no bore wear , no marks on it and you want to re use it.........there's no point in re honing it.
Maybe you need a bit more P to W clearance?
The only way is to hone it. But with the proper machine.


So........if you've had a "drop in job done.
AND
If it smokes afterwards.
It was done wrong.

So a ball hone job done wrong is worse than no hone job at all.
Well you just can't do a proper job with a ball hone.
As below.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2006...nder-finishes/

Here too.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=461535

Ayoustin

iTrader: (2)

You very well can do a proper hone with a ball hone. Of course a hone job in a honing machine is always better, but that requires tearing down the entire engine to a bare block and extensive cleaning afterwards which adds time and expense.

One of your two cited sources is another forum, where some guy is telling people to wrap a hone in duct tape in order to keep the glazing on a cylinder walls...

And the other is a 10+ year old article on engine machining that isn't even saying the same thing as you. Furthermore, it actually advocates the use of ball hones and them being an acceptable form of cylinder honing.


I feel stupid for even responding to you but I don't want all of this misinformation you're spewing out to be read as proper information by someone who doesn't know better.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

I've tried to get him banned multiple times. For some reason the Mods seem to be fine with him spewing completely wrong information 99% of the time.

mrfred

iTrader: (50)

Yes my Evo burns some oil, but it doesn't smoke. That aside, I've lost track of what point you're trying to make. Presumably you are trying to convince me or other people that a drop-in build is a mistake. If that's the case, I'll just say that I got exactly what I wanted out of my drop-in build - the ability for the motor to more reliably handle 600 whp without paying the cost for a full engine build. I wail on my Evo just about every time I drive it, and the motor has run great for the last 20K miles at 500+ whp on a fairly non-conservative tune.

krys88

Might be a stupid question but is it necessary to use torque plate for a ball honing? I have never done that, always machine shop was doing boring and honing, but I have a block that the bores are perfect ( I measured them) but I will install new rings and I just want to do couple strokes with ball honer to make the surface nicer to seat the rings. Also what grit did you used? From what I was reading ball honing is not taking any material. Thanks!

schuhie

When I did the ball hone on my set of drop ins, I didn't use a torque plate and everything was cool on 3/4cylinders. The one that had issues was one where the valve had been broken off and gouged the wall pretty bad. I did a set of drop in's initially to try and save from having to pull the engine. That 4th cylinder in my case was never right and I ended up pulling it and having it machined.

The 3 that were in decent shape to start with though were totally fine. Leakdown and compression was perfect.

Ayoustin is right on though, make sure you clean everything super well. There is a lot of little grit left after running the ball hone.

krys88

My bores are perfect I just need to re ring it. I just need to do 5-10 strokes with flex hone. So torque plate is not necessary or should I install it for a peace of mind?

schuhie

I mean if you have one and can install it, it won't hurt I don't think. I don't believe its needed, the ball hone doesn't remove enough material to change the shape of the bores but if you have it, might as well do it lol.