Short Runner T4 TS GTX3076R Experiment
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,810
Likes: 329
From: Charlotte, NC
FYI, DV is an abbreviation for diverter valve. Are you running the stock DV, or an aftermarket blow off valve?
I was just hoping that your TS GTX3076R was going to spool up a tad quicker for you. So, I was thinking about the relative looseness of the 1.06 housing, the diverter valve if stock being uncrushed and thus softer. Also I was wondering whether the internal springs of the Tials. Did they come setup with the 10 PSI, or the 14 PSI single spring?
I was just hoping that your TS GTX3076R was going to spool up a tad quicker for you. So, I was thinking about the relative looseness of the 1.06 housing, the diverter valve if stock being uncrushed and thus softer. Also I was wondering whether the internal springs of the Tials. Did they come setup with the 10 PSI, or the 14 PSI single spring?
Last edited by sparky; Nov 5, 2011 at 09:01 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,810
Likes: 329
From: Charlotte, NC
DV is an abbreviation for diverter valve.
I was just hoping that your TS GTX3076R was going to spool up a tad quicker for you. So, I was thinking about the relative looseness of the 1.06 housing, the diverter valve if stock being uncrushed and thus softer, and finally the internal springs of the Tials and whether they came setup with the 10 PSI, or 14 PSI single spring.
I was just hoping that your TS GTX3076R was going to spool up a tad quicker for you. So, I was thinking about the relative looseness of the 1.06 housing, the diverter valve if stock being uncrushed and thus softer, and finally the internal springs of the Tials and whether they came setup with the 10 PSI, or 14 PSI single spring.
I had the base springs set to 22-24psi(can't remember)
As far as spool, the tune has not been touched so I suspect Tom will be able to increase spool by a few hundred rpm. In my opinion the spool is good considering it is a stock motor/head/cams/intake with a 64lbs/min turbo and a 1.06 a/r T4 housing.
I never heard of a stock DV that opens at 35 PSI. There are some units that don't open fully until 25 PSI though. But, to my understanding these are the exception. Eventhough it may not open fully until 25 PSI they generally crack at between 11 and 14 PSI and then from that point on they tend to slowly continue lifting until fully open at 25 PSI.
To maximize spool up you may want to crush it(the DV) ever so slightly. Just put it between two wooden slabs to cushion it between the jaws of your bench vise and set a socket ontop of the hat that is about 1/4" smaller than the hat in overall diameter(maybe its a 17mm or 19mm). Tighten it down just enough so that the socket sinks the hat in about 1/8" in depth, not any more than that though.
Yeah Tom will be able to mess with the Mivec to optimize your spool up too, pulling out low end ignition timing and leaning it out too.
Since you have twin 38mm WG's, and under normal conditions a single 38mm should be sufficient to control boost on that turbo then you have twice the venting surface area needed to control that turbo. Blessed with twice the valve area you only need to have them open half the time that you would if you only had a single 38mm gate.
What I am getting at is that if you only had a single gate you would need it to lift sooner than your dual gate setup. Your two valves can stay on their seats longer before starting to lift. Thus, you should run as stiff of a spring as possible in them.
I understood that those Tials come with a maximum of 14 PSI single spring. And, that if you want higher rate you need to add a second smaller helper spring. Probably you'll want the red helper springs. Or are your WG's already fitted with the helper springs?
As far as my personal taste is concerned, on a street driven 2 liter engine I might opt for the slightly better turbo response of a .82 TS housing if available, for that turbo.
To maximize spool up you may want to crush it(the DV) ever so slightly. Just put it between two wooden slabs to cushion it between the jaws of your bench vise and set a socket ontop of the hat that is about 1/4" smaller than the hat in overall diameter(maybe its a 17mm or 19mm). Tighten it down just enough so that the socket sinks the hat in about 1/8" in depth, not any more than that though.
Yeah Tom will be able to mess with the Mivec to optimize your spool up too, pulling out low end ignition timing and leaning it out too.
Since you have twin 38mm WG's, and under normal conditions a single 38mm should be sufficient to control boost on that turbo then you have twice the venting surface area needed to control that turbo. Blessed with twice the valve area you only need to have them open half the time that you would if you only had a single 38mm gate.
What I am getting at is that if you only had a single gate you would need it to lift sooner than your dual gate setup. Your two valves can stay on their seats longer before starting to lift. Thus, you should run as stiff of a spring as possible in them.
I understood that those Tials come with a maximum of 14 PSI single spring. And, that if you want higher rate you need to add a second smaller helper spring. Probably you'll want the red helper springs. Or are your WG's already fitted with the helper springs?
As far as my personal taste is concerned, on a street driven 2 liter engine I might opt for the slightly better turbo response of a .82 TS housing if available, for that turbo.
Last edited by sparky; Nov 5, 2011 at 11:58 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,810
Likes: 329
From: Charlotte, NC
I never heard of a stock DV that opens at 35 PSI. There are some units that don't open fully until 25 PSI though. But, to my understanding these are the exception. Eventhough it may not open fully until 25 PSI they generally crack at between 11 and 14 PSI and then from that point on they tend to slowly continue lifting until fully open at 25 PSI.
Tial Spring Settings
Interesting. The question, is the TS manifold working THAT well?
Or was the Revhard manifold just THAT bad...
Spool wise, it looks to be similar to the response David saw on his GTX3076R, but with a 2.3L with head work and cams.
It seems to be doing the trick. Interested in seeing what kind of power it can make.
Or was the Revhard manifold just THAT bad...
Spool wise, it looks to be similar to the response David saw on his GTX3076R, but with a 2.3L with head work and cams.
It seems to be doing the trick. Interested in seeing what kind of power it can make.
well you cant say its not tuned.. because it is. the mivec is optimized a good bit already.. i could take away the mivec changes and the spool will drastically be effected so its not fair to say its got lots more spool in it with mivec.. because it doesn't. it may gain a 100rpm quicker, it may not.. i will have to sweep the mivec table to confirm that myself.
but the response difference is drastic.
heres what we got so far:
its a drastic before & after.. but something else needs to be kept in mind the weather. the air is colder and more dense as well.
this is with no additional tuning.. just from the before tune & after overlay. im sure i can extract more power from the car.. just need to play with it some.
but the response difference is drastic.
heres what we got so far:
its a drastic before & after.. but something else needs to be kept in mind the weather. the air is colder and more dense as well.
this is with no additional tuning.. just from the before tune & after overlay. im sure i can extract more power from the car.. just need to play with it some.
Last edited by tscompusa; Nov 5, 2011 at 07:43 PM.
I pressurized the turbo inlet to 35psi, which pressurizes the IC pipes and DV. At 35psi the DV was not leaking. Unless I am off base or overlooking something this is not an issue affecting the setup. I can always try to plug the DV hose to see if spool is affected.
I just told my turbo guy 22-24psi and he setup the springs before shipping.
Tial Spring Settings
I just told my turbo guy 22-24psi and he setup the springs before shipping.
Tial Spring Settings
Interesting. The question, is the TS manifold working THAT well?
Or was the Revhard manifold just THAT bad...
Spool wise, it looks to be similar to the response David saw on his GTX3076R, but with a 2.3L with head work and cams.
It seems to be doing the trick. Interested in seeing what kind of power it can make.
Or was the Revhard manifold just THAT bad...
Spool wise, it looks to be similar to the response David saw on his GTX3076R, but with a 2.3L with head work and cams.
It seems to be doing the trick. Interested in seeing what kind of power it can make.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,810
Likes: 329
From: Charlotte, NC
Interesting. The question, is the TS manifold working THAT well?
Or was the Revhard manifold just THAT bad...
Spool wise, it looks to be similar to the response David saw on his GTX3076R, but with a 2.3L with head work and cams.
It seems to be doing the trick. Interested in seeing what kind of power it can make.
Or was the Revhard manifold just THAT bad...
Spool wise, it looks to be similar to the response David saw on his GTX3076R, but with a 2.3L with head work and cams.
It seems to be doing the trick. Interested in seeing what kind of power it can make.
Dave 4k - 29.9psi
Mine 4k- 24.4psi
My intent with the project was to create a platform that allows for options in the future should I choose to upgrade. I also saw the FP Black did well with a stock ported manifold, which was a short runner twinscroll design. If my results are similar to an FP Black BB on a stock IX motor/head/cams/intake/tb then I think I am satisfied as I believe the topend potential will be greater with the 1.06 T4 TS housing. This will require that I get cams and intake to verify.