No harm no foul guys. The internet does a horrible job of showing the smile on my face as I type. I dont get upset or offended THAT easy

 

My source says HKS realized there were material/design deficiencies with the original about a month after release. They apparently suffered turbine failure on their test car and by that time people had had CHRA failures, turbine failures etc.

4 months after the original was released the kai was released, and HKS 'said' all turbos sold in the US market were kai versions since they had caught the issue before HKS USA sold any. Then I heard a rep from HKS said they were selling all non kai stock first.... I dont know whats true but from the amount of failures the US market reported I'd hazard a guess you guys didnt get the kai until many non kai's were sold. Easy to tell anyway, the Kai's actually have Kai written on the blue/silver plate on the comp housing and on the box and in the manual.

For those thinking its just a few that failed and many didnt, search the net/this site, pm who is using/used a 7460 and ask them if it's alive or if it died. Everyone I PM'd had theirs die. Aaron reported 2 warped flappers which to me also counts as material failure.

Seems all the failures scared everyone off and not many have tried a kai so we may never know if they're any good.

 

I emailed HKS Australia and they said they'd not had any returns of these (think they meant locally) and claimed to be unaware of any widespread issue with the 7460R.

I asked specifically what had been changed/revised in the Kai version since I've seen people report bearing failure, oil seal failure, turbine failure etc. This was their response that that question:

I'm really not sure what to make of it. People have said all kinds of things like the turbine was revised (Sean from Iveytune said this was untrue) and reinforced CHRA I have heard multiple times now from various people. Given all the ways these things have let go, can something that's just had the wastegate flapper made more heat resistant be trusted?


Also in the product notes for the kai it says "the heat durability is enhanced 4 times" than the original. Nice marketing, but in reality it probably means the turbine/flapper totally melted in 10 seconds at X*C, now it lasted 40 seconds. Who knows.

 

Threads like this are less informative and more discouraging cause a lot of it is speculation that ends up scaring people away from this turbo. I still have yet to see all these failures you are talking about. I also have yet to see a significant amount of people chiming in that had this turbo fail on them or even people still running it without problems. 18bora is pushing his 7460 on pump and still tracking his car. R/TErnie had really good success on E85 before running into problems with it.

We have seen turbo failures in all makes and models... it comes with the territory. Manufacturing quality, tolerances, materials, installation, tuning, etc. can all effect a turbo's reliability. The only thing I can agree with you is the support from HKS is not there like other US companies (CBRD, FP, MAP, etc.).

 

I understand your point, however-

A warped flapper is not speculation. WGA issues and center cartridge failure is not speculation. No one said that other manufacturers dont have issues, the question was if the Kai resolved the known problems there were with the 7460. The whole point of this post is to see if it was common or not. It really appears that it isnt. I cant find the pix I took of Karl's when we pulled it off the car, I will email him and see if I can get him to snap some.

Aaron

 

There are lots of well documented cases of failures on the original design of the turbo. That isn't speculation, its fact. The thread was to see if the updates fix the very really problems with the turbo design. My guess is that very few people are willing to risk running the new version after the problems with the old one.

 

Again besides the few that have chimmed in I have not seen significant failures. So one warped flapper, one center cartridge failure and a bunch of WGA issues that just involves some tweaking and some attention. I've read a lot more failures with FP and CBRD turbos. Fortunately because of FP's & CBRD's great customer service and engineering they have resolved those issues with their turbos and hopefully their customers.

Run up your EGT and you'll warp or melt anything. I read a failure were the installer couldn't even confirm if they used the OEM or HKS banjo bolts... that could cause failures.

Sean Ivey has been pushing these turbos pretty hard and I've never heard a peep from his customers on failures.

 

The speculation and gossip I'm talking about is what really caused the failures, not the actual documented failures... I agree those are facts. The speculation is the back and forth discussion about the two different versions and how the second version fixed all the reasons the first one was failing. Unless someone gets inside info directly from HKS engineering we will never know the truth.

The real test of any product is when it reaches the hands of the consumer. That's when you see the true real world results of all the paper calculations, lab and track tests. Just like our local US turbo suppliers maybe HKS didn't factor that consumers would push these turbos to there limits to squeeze every last psi out of them and so they revised their design to better handle the abuse... who knows, it's all witchcraft to me.

 

Mine is still alive and ticking.

 

I dont have a lot of miles on mine but still running like a champ..

 

dude and keath, do you guys have the original version or the KAI?

 

Three more satisfied 7460 customers:

MR. EVO MR
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-evo-8-mr.html

18bora:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ts-review.html

fabcas311 had a post somewhere with his results on a 7460 (think he took the thread down cause I can't find it). He was very happy with it before getting the itch for more air and going to a FP Black...then his motor went boom boom!

 

Spanked, nothing I have said has been speculation. I have simply stumbled across descriptions of failures and mentioned those here asking for owners for their experience. I am not saying what I've posted was the definite step one in a cascade of events leading to the turbo failure, but basically what the most damaged part was when it failed. Ive seen pics of compressor wheels missing blades, turbines missing blades and melted etc. Whether the wheels let go/melted first or the CHRA let go causing the wheels to hit the housing and break/seize no one could tell from a pic. The accounts are real though, but you are right in that some problems can be caused by poor installation or abuse.

I'm not trying to put anyone off, and I'm sure there are lots out there running them with no issues. I started out all keen for one then doing some research ran into accounts of problems, and couple that with less present support now based in a different country and yeah, I'm concerned. The 7460 looks like it'd be fantastic for me but it certainly has a question mark over its reliability. Other brands have had failures too but look at the market share difference. Maybe it was coincidence too but I pm'd multiple users on here after searching and they'd all (maybe 5-6 guys) had their 7460's fail. It's funny you bring up R/TErnie in support of your argument - his turbo eventually failed too.

 

Mine is not the KAI, OG, and R/T Ernie is the one who ported it.

The wg arm did need to be adjusted after several heat cycles. I posted my dyno results in the dyno sections.

 

So if there have been a "bunch sold" and for sake of argument lets say that number is 1000. If only the 5 or 6 we know of failed then the failure rate percentage is way above normal and I wouldnt be worried, 99.5% success rate is awesome. Drop that to 100 sold and really pushed hard, the 95% success rate isnt bad but its not the best.

R/T Ernie ran E85 so the EGT was low and still had issues. Karl was on a combo of pump/racegas, low boost and high timing and warped the flange. Thats 2. 98% success is awesome (if we refer back to the 100 sold that are pushed hard). Right now the odds are stacked agains the original 3 for and 2 against. The Kai seems to not have any complaints which is good.

I would tend to lean toward using it if I didnt believe so strongly in the Green now that is available as a DBB.

Aaron