View Poll Results: EF4 or FP Black?
MAP EF4
23
42.59%
FP Black
31
57.41%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll
EF4 or FP Black?
Feb 7, 2012, 06:24 AM
#17
By all means head to the track. But you wont be showing me anything I dont already know. The EF4 is not a turbo I would ever choose for my own car. Far better choices available. Black being one of them which is what this poll is about.
You better have an amazing clutch and driver. otherwise car wont even get into the 10s. When powerbands are short in 1-3 its very difficult to cut a good ET. You need a clutch that can shift at high RPM. and a driver who can get it out of the whole at high RPM.
Let us know what your prediction is. Mine is 135-145mph but with high 11s.
You better have an amazing clutch and driver. otherwise car wont even get into the 10s. When powerbands are short in 1-3 its very difficult to cut a good ET. You need a clutch that can shift at high RPM. and a driver who can get it out of the whole at high RPM.
Let us know what your prediction is. Mine is 135-145mph but with high 11s.
Wow. Harsh, but true! :}
Feb 7, 2012, 06:47 AM
#18
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You two are acting like the EF4 falls on it's face after you shift. Full boost is being seen usually around 4000 to 4500rpms roughly, and when you shift 1-2 and 2-3 and 3-4, you don't drop below 5000rpms when using just a 7500rpm shift point. What makes you think you'd lose all boost and have to build it back from nothing again? The EF4 might be a littly laggy for a stock frame turbo, but it's not near as bad as you are making it out to be. And you are forgetting that it holds power better up top than the black does.
I'd really be surprised if a EF4 wasn't BETTER than a Black for pure drag racing. And I'm going to try it out and I'll let you all know how I do.
I'd really be surprised if a EF4 wasn't BETTER than a Black for pure drag racing. And I'm going to try it out and I'll let you all know how I do.
Feb 7, 2012, 07:00 AM
#19
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You two are acting like the EF4 falls on it's face after you shift. Full boost is being seen usually around 4000 to 4500rpms roughly, and when you shift 1-2 and 2-3 and 3-4, you don't drop below 5000rpms when using just a 7500rpm shift point. What makes you think you'd lose all boost and have to build it back from nothing again? The EF4 might be a littly laggy for a stock frame turbo, but it's not near as bad as you are making it out to be. And you are forgetting that it holds power better up top than the black does.
I'd really be surprised if a EF4 wasn't BETTER than a Black for pure drag racing. And I'm going to try it out and I'll let you all know how I do.
I'd really be surprised if a EF4 wasn't BETTER than a Black for pure drag racing. And I'm going to try it out and I'll let you all know how I do.
The ball bearing option would be the nail in the coffin for me. Not to mention you can run much higher than the advertised boost levels.
Are you planning on running an aftermarket oil pan (i.e. AMS wet sump), Kiggly HLA and high end oil (granted yes, I would run all of these anyway regardless of my turbo)? You will need to in order to keep that turbo from coming apart. Due to the amount of G forces seen in drag racing, if that journal bearing turbo doesn't see oil for less than a split second, consider it done. The BB units can survive these types of conditions much better.
-Bink
Feb 7, 2012, 09:23 AM
#21
These threads make me lol, and I think that was the first time I've ever used that connotation correctly haha. You're absolutely right, there are limited drag racing results from our EF4 turbo (or any EF turbo for that matter), would anyone care to share their thoughts on why that might be? Perhaps its due to the fact that Beta testing went live just 7 months ago? (Right in the middle of the race season) And if you're looking for unbiased opinions they will be hard to come by I'm afraid. I'm actually beginning to wonder if 94AWDcoupe is on FP's payroll?
Last edited by ChrisCarey; Feb 7, 2012 at 09:25 AM.
Feb 7, 2012, 09:51 AM
#22
I drove my car when it had a journal bearing Black and when it had the double ball bearing Black. The difference in-between shifts for boost recovery was night and day.
The ball bearing option would be the nail in the coffin for me. Not to mention you can run much higher than the advertised boost levels.
Are you planning on running an aftermarket oil pan (i.e. AMS wet sump), Kiggly HLA and high end oil (granted yes, I would run all of these anyway regardless of my turbo)? You will need to in order to keep that turbo from coming apart. Due to the amount of G forces seen in drag racing, if that journal bearing turbo doesn't see oil for less than a split second, consider it done. The BB units can survive these types of conditions much better.
-Bink
The ball bearing option would be the nail in the coffin for me. Not to mention you can run much higher than the advertised boost levels.
Are you planning on running an aftermarket oil pan (i.e. AMS wet sump), Kiggly HLA and high end oil (granted yes, I would run all of these anyway regardless of my turbo)? You will need to in order to keep that turbo from coming apart. Due to the amount of G forces seen in drag racing, if that journal bearing turbo doesn't see oil for less than a split second, consider it done. The BB units can survive these types of conditions much better.
-Bink
I'll ask MAP about what you said about the oil pan and what not as it's their turbo.
Feb 7, 2012, 09:59 AM
#23
I don't think people realize how much research and development has went into the EF series turbos. Take what Nate told me for instance.....
I know the FP Black is proven. But to think the EF4 will not shine is ridiculous. It may not spool as quick as a BB black, or have as good as boost recovery, but it's not like it's far worse. It's still a stock frame turbo with bigger wheels crammed into it.
Originally Posted by Nate Evans
Oh I think you will find our journal bearing turbos would outspool the old FP journal bearing turbos...if that is a concern. Our re-profiled turbine wheels netted almost 650RPM spool advantage over previous profiles putting our journal bearing turbos almost directly in line with FP ball bearing turbos
..
so with our EF4, you will find, higher peak capability and quicker spool to the FP journal bearing
..
The turbine wheel itself has gone through a major revision on the last year. In reality, it is a totally different wheel now. The compressor wheel has NOT been revised...it has always been a twin or stacked 7 blade swept design with extended tips...SO...what I am saying is that over the last year, we revised the profile blade angle and blade number on our turbine wheel and also lightened it...again, TURBINE wheel...this yielded our current turbo setup so those results are kind of dated at this point in the game.
..
..
so with our EF4, you will find, higher peak capability and quicker spool to the FP journal bearing
..
The turbine wheel itself has gone through a major revision on the last year. In reality, it is a totally different wheel now. The compressor wheel has NOT been revised...it has always been a twin or stacked 7 blade swept design with extended tips...SO...what I am saying is that over the last year, we revised the profile blade angle and blade number on our turbine wheel and also lightened it...again, TURBINE wheel...this yielded our current turbo setup so those results are kind of dated at this point in the game.
..
Feb 7, 2012, 10:09 AM
#24
Evolved Member
I don't drag race or have any stake in either company or turbo... however, if this were a comparison between a proven turbo for my intended use and a new turbo that may/may not be better I would either buy the proven platform or wait until more results had been posted. One of the nice things about this community is that people are really good about posting REAL results. Track times, dyno charts, and direct on/off comparisons of competing products. This has resulted in a lot of great parts for our cars. If you are comfortable being one of the first people putting down drag numbers with the EF4, thats cool go for it... but the reason a lot of people would go with a Black is because its been proven over years of racing. It is absolutely possible the EF4 will be better and could be the "next big thing"... but right now it doesn't have the data available to prove that ahead of time. So you either need to take it on faith that it will be the better choice, or play it safe and get a turbo that has been proven to work well. Honestly, either option will probably work really well. Considering that you have a MAP built motor also, you may be best off getting the MAP turbo and getting those numbers that everyone wants to see.
Feb 7, 2012, 10:17 AM
#25
I don't drag race or have any stake in either company or turbo... however, if this were a comparison between a proven turbo for my intended use and a new turbo that may/may not be better I would either buy the proven platform or wait until more results had been posted. One of the nice things about this community is that people are really good about posting REAL results. Track times, dyno charts, and direct on/off comparisons of competing products. This has resulted in a lot of great parts for our cars. If you are comfortable being one of the first people putting down drag numbers with the EF4, thats cool go for it... but the reason a lot of people would go with a Black is because its been proven over years of racing. It is absolutely possible the EF4 will be better and could be the "next big thing"... but right now it doesn't have the data available to prove that ahead of time. So you either need to take it on faith that it will be the better choice, or play it safe and get a turbo that has been proven to work well. Honestly, either option will probably work really well. Considering that you have a MAP built motor also, you may be best off getting the MAP turbo and getting those numbers that everyone wants to see.
I'll stick with my choice and provide the data so everyone can see. If I don't like it, I can always change it up.
Feb 7, 2012, 10:30 AM
#26
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Considering the amount of money you are going to spend. I would save up for a bit longer and get the BB option if thats what you would buy (budget out of the picture). Just my 2 cents. I mean if a journal black or ef4 is what you are SETTLING for. You will most definitely be back in the future to buy what you REALLY want.
My advice. Do it right the first time...
My advice. Do it right the first time...
Feb 7, 2012, 10:41 AM
#27
We have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee and a one year warranty. No one in this industry stands behind their product like we do, no one. If our customers aren't happy, we're not happy simple as that.
Feb 7, 2012, 10:45 AM
#28
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What everyone seems to be forgetting is the company you will be working with We have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee and a one year warranty. No one in this industry stands behind their product like we do, no one. If our customers aren't happy, we're not happy simple as that.
We have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee and a one year warranty. No one in this industry stands behind their product like we do, no one. If our customers aren't happy, we're not happy simple as that.
