silverEVO8

iTrader: (12)

I have some questions regarding clutches for the EVO. I'm considering upgrading my clutch to prevent problems as I proceed with engine modifications.

I've read and talked with ppl about this subject and I hear a lot of support for the carbon fiber clutches such as the Cusco and ATS. All agree that the carbon clutches are extremely resistant to heat, etc. I've also heard that some folks have experienced numerous failures with the Exede clutches mainly because of a retaining ring failure.
I've also heard from other ppl that the carbon fiber clutches have an extremely short life due to wear. In other words, the carbon clutches wear out very fast, 20K miles is the life I heard of a carbon clutch and that is just way too short.
I also hear that the other way to get high horsepower holding in a clutch is with the use of very high pressures or other designs that make the driveability suffer like the off-on nature of some clutches make makes them a pita to drive specially in heavy traffic.

I would like to hear from ppl who actually have had various types of up-graded or replacement clutches in their EVOs and what has their experience been. I'd like to avoid purchasing and installing a clutch that will either be innapropriate for my needs or will wear too fast or fail under use. I want a clutch that will handle 500+ hp and will withstand hard launches at the dragstrip. I don't go to the dragstrip too often, but I don't want to wear out my clutch in the few times I go. Also, I plan to get my engine to the 350+ WHP so the clutch should hold up under those conditions.
Of course, I must also have a clutch that will not compromise the day-to-day use of the car. My car is definitely a daily driver and I do drive it in stop and go traffic every day.

I know that lots of the ppl here have read and heard lots of good information and I really appreciate ppl trying to help, but I would really appreciate hearing first hand experience or expert information rather than opinions based on hearsay (I've got tons of that already )

Thanks in advance

Guru

iTrader: (6)

ATS carbons actually last a very long time. What carbon clutches have you heard do not last long? The ATS twin and triple plates last 3 times as long as a cerometallic clutch of the same type. As far as I know Cusco does not have any carbon clutches available. Only ATS, OS Giken, Tilton, and RPS have the technology. Exedy has some but not released in this country and out of the others only ATS makes one for the EVO. IN fact I have a triple plate I'm installing as we speak. It can handle 1000 HP and is easy enough for your girlfriend to drive.

silverEVO8

iTrader: (12)

Tilton, AP & Sachs are the racing clutches that my fiend (a racer) is talking about. He says that these carbon clutches (Tilton) are indeed very resistant to heat and handle tremendous amounts of torque, but wear out rapidly. According to him, these carbon friction & floater plates will wear practically down to nothing so they require frequent periodical service which involves replacing the pressure plate with a thicker one (he says Tilton is particularly good at working with the end user and they swap out pressure plates).
Anyway, this might not be applicable to the ATS clutches sold for the EVO but this is the information I got regarding the high wear factor of carbon clutches in racing applications...

silverEVO8

iTrader: (12)

Hmmmm...... Not many ppl have actual experience with carbon clutches? How about alternative resin/metal units?

BPAuto

iTrader: (10)

There are a few people on the boards with carbon clutches. I'm sure Diesel or someone with a carbon clutch will chime in soon.

Cusco actually does have a carbon clutch; they make a twin-plate carbon-faced clutch. They may license the design from OS Giken, but I'm not sure. As the Guru said, the units made by OS Giken, ATS and Cusco have a loooong life and stand up to a ton of abuse.

I would say for your application you would be more than pleased with either an OS Giken, Cusco or ATS clutch.

EVOlunchbox

iTrader: (12)

I'll let you know about the triple plate ATS when mine is finished. It's being installed as we speak.

superz

iTrader: (7)

there is no need for a triple plate carbon clutch, that is unless you plan on making 900+ hp. You want driveability, this tells me you should go with a dual disc at most. If you choose to go with a carbon disc you're probably spending too much since the capacity for holding power easily overcome the stock Evo's drivetrain capacity for power. In other words - the clutch will be ok, even if the tranny, driveshafts, transfer case, and rear diff BLOW UP!!
I happen to like the HKS GD max. It will hold upwards of 600hp, pedal effort is lighter than stock and the price is lower than any other twin disc. The pressure plate clip is not an issue with HKS as its totally different from stock. lotsa luck buying a clutch!

silverEVO8

iTrader: (12)

HKS GD Max.... very interesting. Does it also come with a pressure plate, throwout bearing, etc? What's the cost of a unit like that?

I agree that a tripple plate carbon clutch it total overkill for a 350-400 hp car.... The twin plate ATS is about $100 more than the single plate so it seems like a small (5%) increase to get a 720 hp clutch..... OTOH, maybe that $100 can be better spent?

I don't have an overwhelming desire to spend $$$. I'd be much more excited if I knew that I was buying the appropriate part for the job. It's foolish to spend more than needed but equally (or more) foolish to skimp on necessary expense and have to do it twice

I'm pretty excited to be receiving this kind of good feedback. BTW, what's the deal on the racing carbon clutches? Are they as my friend says, very quick to wear out?

Thanks

Guru

iTrader: (6)

This is a false statement. THe triple plate is easier to drive than a comparable twin plate yet absorbs more energy so as to be easier on drivetrain. I have driven both twin and triple plate carbon clutches and prefer my triple plate to the twin as it is easier to modulate and it has a lighter clutch pedal. The triple plate also lasts longer than a twin. Personally the triple plate is much better than a twin or single plate in about every way except for price and weight although the ATS unit is still a LOT lighter than stock.

Guru

iTrader: (6)

Ohand ATS makes a "soft" version of their twin and triple plates that makes it even smoother to drive on the street and is made for folks who drive through rush hour everyday yet want something with holding power. Twin plate "soft" can still handle 500 HP instead of 700 and the triple "soft" can handle 800 HP instead of 1000 HP but you lose a little feel which is why I usually just go for the regular twin and triples.

silverEVO8

iTrader: (12)

Great information.... I'm very tempted to go with these ATS double or triple plate setups. The only thing that makes me balk is the price .... I know these are good products, but they are pricey.... I wonder what HP gain if any the lighter flywheel could mean?
Still I wonder what my friend was talking about regarding the fast wear of carbon clutches... I guess those racing clutches are considerably smaller in diameter for one thing, I don't know what other differences they might have from the ATS offering for the EVO.
Another thing that I think is true is that the drivetrain of the EVO is actually quite strong. Sveral ppl are running in the 12s and 11s regularly and I can only recall Shiv breaking his drivetrain.... Of course, there could be others, I just can't recall.

RaX

If I was replacing my clutch, I'd pay the premium for the Triple Plate "Soft Type" from ATS. I sent ATS an email regarding the difference between the Twin and Triple, and here's their reply:

http://www.a-t-s-usa.com/

superz

iTrader: (7)

If you look at his requirements you will see that a triple is way overkill in both capacity and price. I highly doubt you have driven an Evo with a HKS clutch in it, otherwise you would agree with its driveability for the street, not to mention the price difference. False statement, I don't think so, better match with budget-vs-need, yes!

Guru

iTrader: (6)

Well we're not just talking about capacity and price. If we were we'd get the cheapest heaviest pressure plate with 3 puck disc we can find. We are talking about drivability, smoothness, easy on the drivetrain and many other factors here. The ATS stuff is top notch. I posted pics here of my STi clutch and I would take pics of the EVO triple plate but really it is identical to the camera's eye anyway. Here I'll repost it.

Zeus

iTrader: (66)

It's real pretty Dan, and so is a Ferarri Enzo... most can't afford either...