Have questions for us?
Mar 20, 2013, 01:31 PM
#1
Have questions for us?
I don't know if this is ok but I figure it's a tech section and why not if it's not ok I'm sure the mods will close it.
Anyway got a questions about our products that you'd like answered? I'd be happy to answer it for you.
-Michael
Anyway got a questions about our products that you'd like answered? I'd be happy to answer it for you.
-Michael
Mar 21, 2013, 08:14 AM
#5
Improper lubrication.
Turbos require a steady and quality oil supply in order to float the bearings (journal bearing at least) and without it they die very quickly. The typical operating range (under load) of one of our turbos is 125,000RPM and as you can imagine **** can go very wrong when the thing that's most critical to your turbos operation is suddenly not up to par or just flat out not there.
Hence why we released our oiling recommendation white paper detailing the importance of running a high quality oil with high zinc and phosphorus. Our testing on the matter and what we learned in the field leads me to the next question.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
What we learned was that the EVO 9 community was ***** to the wall and were finding new and creative ways to push the limits of our turbos. Manufacturing defects accounted for around 1% of warranty claims on the Reds and Blacks the vast majority that reached our table that failed under the 1 year were due to improper lubrication. Which lead us to do the testing mentioned above as well as investigating oil starvation issues under hard corning or hard launching.
What we found was that the preferred oil for the community (Mobile 1) did not live up to the standards that it once did. We also found that there was a serious concern with starving the turbo when oil sloshed around in the pan the oil would end up getting aerated and once that was fed to the turbo it was lights out. These issues were beyond us to fix and if we kept offering the journal bearing options of these larger frames turbos they would keep failing as long as people did not resolve them.
So our options were either create a turbocharger that was mostly immune to these issues or try and educate every single person about proper oiling and design flaws in their oil pan. The choice was obvious we had to build the turbo we knew would survive in these conditions. With that being said we discontinued the JB format in the Red and Blacks because you guys (the EVO community) deserved a better product.
71HTA is rated at 51LB a minute given the 10HP per 1LB rule the turbo is capable of generating enough air for 510BHP. Given drive train loss you should be able to see 450-475WHP out of that turbo when pushed. Realistically though at around 25PSI you should see between 375-400WHP and I would try your best to keep the boost under 30PSI for daily driving and no more than 35PSI when at the track.
Of course this is all subjective as boost doesn't = air flow nor is it a true measurement of how hard the turbo has to work but you get the idea.
-Michael
Turbos require a steady and quality oil supply in order to float the bearings (journal bearing at least) and without it they die very quickly. The typical operating range (under load) of one of our turbos is 125,000RPM and as you can imagine **** can go very wrong when the thing that's most critical to your turbos operation is suddenly not up to par or just flat out not there.
Hence why we released our oiling recommendation white paper detailing the importance of running a high quality oil with high zinc and phosphorus. Our testing on the matter and what we learned in the field leads me to the next question.
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf
What we found was that the preferred oil for the community (Mobile 1) did not live up to the standards that it once did. We also found that there was a serious concern with starving the turbo when oil sloshed around in the pan the oil would end up getting aerated and once that was fed to the turbo it was lights out. These issues were beyond us to fix and if we kept offering the journal bearing options of these larger frames turbos they would keep failing as long as people did not resolve them.
So our options were either create a turbocharger that was mostly immune to these issues or try and educate every single person about proper oiling and design flaws in their oil pan. The choice was obvious we had to build the turbo we knew would survive in these conditions. With that being said we discontinued the JB format in the Red and Blacks because you guys (the EVO community) deserved a better product.
Of course this is all subjective as boost doesn't = air flow nor is it a true measurement of how hard the turbo has to work but you get the idea.
-Michael
Mar 21, 2013, 08:38 AM
#7
http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...e=Lancer-Turbo
-Michael
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Mar 21, 2013, 09:01 AM
#8
Hello Michael, I have a question for you:
I´m from El Salvador, almost two years ago I bought a FP Black turbo and works fine! 35-37 psi and I can´t be happier with the performance of the turbo.
The thing is this. I've always wondered, what would happen if I damaged my turbo. How could I do because I'm far from USA and what options could you give me to see how I can fix that. Do you think FP could do something about it? thank you!
I´m from El Salvador, almost two years ago I bought a FP Black turbo and works fine! 35-37 psi and I can´t be happier with the performance of the turbo.
The thing is this. I've always wondered, what would happen if I damaged my turbo. How could I do because I'm far from USA and what options could you give me to see how I can fix that. Do you think FP could do something about it? thank you!
Mar 21, 2013, 09:11 AM
#9
Hello Michael, I have a question for you:
I´m from El Salvador, almost two years ago I bought a FP Black turbo and works fine! 35-37 psi and I can´t be happier with the performance of the turbo.
The thing is this. I've always wondered, what would happen if I damaged my turbo. How could I do because I'm far from USA and what options could you give me to see how I can fix that. Do you think FP could do something about it? thank you!
I´m from El Salvador, almost two years ago I bought a FP Black turbo and works fine! 35-37 psi and I can´t be happier with the performance of the turbo.
The thing is this. I've always wondered, what would happen if I damaged my turbo. How could I do because I'm far from USA and what options could you give me to see how I can fix that. Do you think FP could do something about it? thank you!
Well first of all the turbo would have to be sent to us which trust me we understand that can get expensive REAL quick but ultimately the turbo has to get here somehow.
As mentioned above we not longer rebuild the JB units as we feel the best course of action is have them upgraded to the BB units. If you're the original owner of the turbo we always try and work with you on the price, so if anything ever does happen to it rest assured we will do everything in our power to help you out and get your turbo back on the car so you can keep kicking ***.
-Michael
Mar 21, 2013, 10:40 AM
#13
What we learned was that the EVO 9 community was ***** to the wall and were finding new and creative ways to push the limits of our turbos. Manufacturing defects accounted for around 1% of warranty claims on the Reds and Blacks the vast majority that reached our table that failed under the 1 year were due to improper lubrication. Which lead us to do the testing mentioned above as well as investigating oil starvation issues under hard corning or hard launching.
What we found was that the preferred oil for the community (Mobile 1) did not live up to the standards that it once did. We also found that there was a serious concern with starving the turbo when oil sloshed around in the pan the oil would end up getting aerated and once that was fed to the turbo it was lights out. These issues were beyond us to fix and if we kept offering the journal bearing options of these larger frames turbos they would keep failing as long as people did not resolve them.
So our options were either create a turbocharger that was mostly immune to these issues or try and educate every single person about proper oiling and design flaws in their oil pan. The choice was obvious we had to build the turbo we knew would survive in these conditions. With that being said we discontinued the JB format in the Red and Blacks because you guys (the EVO community) deserved a better product.
-Michael
What we found was that the preferred oil for the community (Mobile 1) did not live up to the standards that it once did. We also found that there was a serious concern with starving the turbo when oil sloshed around in the pan the oil would end up getting aerated and once that was fed to the turbo it was lights out. These issues were beyond us to fix and if we kept offering the journal bearing options of these larger frames turbos they would keep failing as long as people did not resolve them.
So our options were either create a turbocharger that was mostly immune to these issues or try and educate every single person about proper oiling and design flaws in their oil pan. The choice was obvious we had to build the turbo we knew would survive in these conditions. With that being said we discontinued the JB format in the Red and Blacks because you guys (the EVO community) deserved a better product.
-Michael
Mar 21, 2013, 11:19 AM
#14
Another reason we didn't research it any further is because the Ball Bearing models we offer now don't care what type of oil they get fed as long as it's clean and constant.
Wow, thanks for the great explanation. So how affected are the Green turbos from the same conditions? As I see you continued to have them built in JB. I have my IX turbo at your shop right now being built into a Green and planned on running Amsoil AMO 10w40. I see it is not on your recommended list but is very close in Zinc and Phos to your specs. Will this oil be ok?
If the zinc and phosphorus compare closely to what we have listed as approved oils then it should be fine.
-Michael
Last edited by Michael @ FP; Mar 21, 2013 at 11:34 AM.
