How to tell if a turbo is BB or JB
OK. I was going to let this settle through paypal and was merely trying to warn other evom members but we can let this air out here.
First, on the point of whether or not this turbo is bb or jb: I called FP and they told me what to look for on a BB turbo and what they've said has concurred with what the guys on here have said. Bottom line, you have NOTHING other than your word to verify it as ball-bearing. You paid 3k for it? You can't even produce an invoice for it (which you still haven't done). When I kept asking for one, you stated that you're a dealer and that you'd just write one up for me. If the whole thing didn't seem so shady to me, I wouldn't have started questioning the type of bearing in it.
Second, your ad/post is misleading and you failed to uphold your end. You couldn't produce an original invoice for it, warranty card wasn't included, you sent me the wrong oil lines (which were also used), and the inline filter didn't even come with it. WHERE DID THOSE LINES COME FROM? I've asked you about the origins of the used lines multiple times with no answer.
Third, regarding you not knowing that there were two different lines? This just shows you don't even know the differences between ball bearing and journal on the fp line. Anyone even semi-familiar with the evo FP products know that the bb turbos feed from the head and that only the journals are recommended to feed from the oil filter.
Fourth, and most importantly, you're a flat out liar. You had the original post "as-is"? This is why I'm not willing to work with you. You proved yourself a liar the moment you edited your post to include that (by the way everyone can see when you edited your post). You changed the original post, then told me that no refunds would be given on the grounds that it was sold "as-is". I have multiple screenshots of the post the day I bought it:
Note the removal of the shady paypal payment as gift clause and the addition of 'as-is'. Furthermore, "as-is" is generally used in cases where a condition of a certain item cannot be verified or guaranteed, not whether or not an item is or isn't something.
Finally, if you are so confident it is a legitimate, ball-bearing, FP green turbo, you would have absolutely NO qualms about giving me a refund and reselling it for more than what you sold it to me for (since you lost a thousand dollars selling it to me anyway).
tldr; There was no documentation on the turbo, you are being deceitful, and I'm just trying to warn other evom members.
Happy holidays everyone!
First, on the point of whether or not this turbo is bb or jb: I called FP and they told me what to look for on a BB turbo and what they've said has concurred with what the guys on here have said. Bottom line, you have NOTHING other than your word to verify it as ball-bearing. You paid 3k for it? You can't even produce an invoice for it (which you still haven't done). When I kept asking for one, you stated that you're a dealer and that you'd just write one up for me. If the whole thing didn't seem so shady to me, I wouldn't have started questioning the type of bearing in it.
Second, your ad/post is misleading and you failed to uphold your end. You couldn't produce an original invoice for it, warranty card wasn't included, you sent me the wrong oil lines (which were also used), and the inline filter didn't even come with it. WHERE DID THOSE LINES COME FROM? I've asked you about the origins of the used lines multiple times with no answer.
Third, regarding you not knowing that there were two different lines? This just shows you don't even know the differences between ball bearing and journal on the fp line. Anyone even semi-familiar with the evo FP products know that the bb turbos feed from the head and that only the journals are recommended to feed from the oil filter.
Fourth, and most importantly, you're a flat out liar. You had the original post "as-is"? This is why I'm not willing to work with you. You proved yourself a liar the moment you edited your post to include that (by the way everyone can see when you edited your post). You changed the original post, then told me that no refunds would be given on the grounds that it was sold "as-is". I have multiple screenshots of the post the day I bought it:
Note the removal of the shady paypal payment as gift clause and the addition of 'as-is'. Furthermore, "as-is" is generally used in cases where a condition of a certain item cannot be verified or guaranteed, not whether or not an item is or isn't something.
Finally, if you are so confident it is a legitimate, ball-bearing, FP green turbo, you would have absolutely NO qualms about giving me a refund and reselling it for more than what you sold it to me for (since you lost a thousand dollars selling it to me anyway).
tldr; There was no documentation on the turbo, you are being deceitful, and I'm just trying to warn other evom members.
Happy holidays everyone!
Now for the line which I indeed did tell you about. I lost the original line. I cannot find it. I bought a used line from a member on here. I assumed the line would work fine as I didn't know you needed a special line for the BB turbo. Well I guess I was wrong. I offered to refund you $200 to purchase the correct line with you sending me back the old line so I can recuperate some funds. **Another EDIT: The line did indeed come with the black FP Filter. But hey it's the internet and you have the turbo so why not bull**** about that as well.**
Warranty card is lost. I never said it was included. I said I would try and find it, I didn't. I have the invoice, it wasn't sent to you for reasons. PayPal is in possession of the original invoice currently.
You thought I was shady from the beginning. You should of never purchased the turbo from me then. Now you are regretting your purchase and saying it's not BB when it clearly is. You are only stating it's not due to the line you got. Well explain this one, if the turbo is BRAND NEW, then explain how the line is used with that turbo? Simply not possible. The turbo is a FP BB GREEN. I paid OVER $3000 for it. You paid $2063. Give me a break and refund me my money.
PS... Just so you know the arrow you have pointed to the date is NOT the day you bought the turbo with the screenshot. That is the day I originally posted the turbo for sale.
***It went back up to $2500 shipped and AS IS was added. I have screenshots to show the change of the ad as well from Dec. 2nd at around 7:45 PM, which was about 25 minutes BEFORE you told me you were buying it.***
Last edited by 05EV08; Dec 21, 2014 at 02:04 PM.
Note the removal of the shady paypal payment as gift clause and the addition of 'as-is'. Furthermore, "as-is" is generally used in cases where a condition of a certain item cannot be verified or guaranteed, not whether or not an item is or isn't something.
Finally, if you are so confident it is a legitimate, ball-bearing, FP green turbo, you would have absolutely NO qualms about giving me a refund and reselling it for more than what you sold it to me for (since you lost a thousand dollars selling it to me anyway).
tldr; There was no documentation on the turbo, you are being deceitful, and I'm just trying to warn other evom members.
Happy holidays everyone!
Finally, if you are so confident it is a legitimate, ball-bearing, FP green turbo, you would have absolutely NO qualms about giving me a refund and reselling it for more than what you sold it to me for (since you lost a thousand dollars selling it to me anyway).
tldr; There was no documentation on the turbo, you are being deceitful, and I'm just trying to warn other evom members.
Happy holidays everyone!
I can almost guarantee you have another FP Green sitting there and I'll most likely receive that one back if you win the paypal case. This has happened to me before as well. I know I should of never sent you the turbo when you posted this on my page...
This is the same day you bought it from me. Edit:You seemed extremely undecided and skeptical about the purchase from the gecko.
Last edited by 05EV08; Dec 21, 2014 at 02:08 PM.
Evolved Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 563
Likes: 40
From: Cyprus
Yes I did. Once again, the oil supply line I supplied was USED and not used for the turbo I sent him. I lost the line and bought a new one but I was unaware that the BB green needed a special line so I bought the wrong one. I am willing to offer the seller a $200 refund so he can go buy himself the correct line that he needs.
It seems you have not understood what I wrote on my previous post. The restrictor for the bb core is not something you buy as an extra part, it is fixed upon the chra of a bb turbo, and it has nothing to do with the oil feed line, it is not part of the line but part of the turbo itself.
Regarding your comment of the pictured turbocharger not being the one you have sent to the buyer, that I would not know, nor do I claim that it is of course, I assume that everything that is posted by both of you has all to do with the truthful reality.
All I am stating here, is that the pictured turbo is not a ballbearing one.
Hopefully you will both come to an agreement and sort this out without too much hassle etc.
There is no need for me to be involved anymore in this. I wish everyone merry Christmas and happy holidays.
Marios
It seems you have not understood what I wrote on my previous post. The restrictor for the bb core is not something you buy as an extra part, it is fixed upon the chra of a bb turbo, and it has nothing to do with the oil feed line, it is not part of the line but part of the turbo itself.
Regarding your comment of the pictured turbocharger not being the one you have sent to the buyer, that I would not know, nor do I claim that it is of course, I assume that everything that is posted by both of you has all to do with the truthful reality.
All I am stating here, is that the pictured turbo is not a ballbearing one.
Hopefully you will both come to an agreement and sort this out without too much hassle etc.
There is no need for me to be involved anymore in this. I wish everyone merry Christmas and happy holidays.
Marios
Regarding your comment of the pictured turbocharger not being the one you have sent to the buyer, that I would not know, nor do I claim that it is of course, I assume that everything that is posted by both of you has all to do with the truthful reality.
All I am stating here, is that the pictured turbo is not a ballbearing one.
Hopefully you will both come to an agreement and sort this out without too much hassle etc.
There is no need for me to be involved anymore in this. I wish everyone merry Christmas and happy holidays.
Marios
Evolved Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 563
Likes: 40
From: Cyprus
No mate, actually I am very correct, the pictured turbo is not a bb one, now I do not know what you bought from Robert, but I have been using fp stock frame turbos since they very firstly came out, I firstly run a stock frame fp green 1st generation journal bearing turbo back in '07. I have been into car tuning and motorsport for the last 20years, I know turbochargers like the back of hand, so trust me I know exactly what I am talking about. I also happen to have a dual ball bearing fp red sitting here next to me, on which I recently changed the turbine wheel as its original one was slightly damaged, and a dbb fp black running on my personal car for the past 4years now.
Search on the web for pictures on bb chra vs jb chra and you will see for yourself what I am talking about.
Marios
Re: partial refund of $200 to buy the correct lines
$200 doesn't make up the difference between a bb and jb turbo. You claim to have a receipt from FP, well where is it? I've asked for the original invoice from the very beginning as text messages will show. You still don't have anything to prove that this is a bb turbo other than your insistence.
I didn't send you pp payment as a gift exactly because I was afraid something like this might happen. (If you didn't know, sending payment as gift forfeits all buyer protection.)
The inline filter wasn't included. There's no reason I would lie about that. If you didn't know, the inline filters for jb and bb are also different. Anyway, the wrong lines are only auxiliary to the main point: I paid for a ball bearing turbo and you sent me a jb turbo. End of story until you can produce some sort of credible documentation proving such.
The fact that you claimed that it had the Xona CHRA in your own FS thread and per your second to last text message to me: "The JB turbos have smaller inlets too. Mine has a bigger inlet" kinda proves that you are 1. You aren't very familiar with fp turbos and/or 2. You were dishonest about your claims and got caught.
I'm not going to discuss this any further nor address your baseless accusations of me attempting to pull something as I've wasted enough time trying to point out the reasons for my doubt and refund claim. You have addressed none of my points and have produced no documentation.
$200 doesn't make up the difference between a bb and jb turbo. You claim to have a receipt from FP, well where is it? I've asked for the original invoice from the very beginning as text messages will show. You still don't have anything to prove that this is a bb turbo other than your insistence.
I didn't send you pp payment as a gift exactly because I was afraid something like this might happen. (If you didn't know, sending payment as gift forfeits all buyer protection.)
The inline filter wasn't included. There's no reason I would lie about that. If you didn't know, the inline filters for jb and bb are also different. Anyway, the wrong lines are only auxiliary to the main point: I paid for a ball bearing turbo and you sent me a jb turbo. End of story until you can produce some sort of credible documentation proving such.
The fact that you claimed that it had the Xona CHRA in your own FS thread and per your second to last text message to me: "The JB turbos have smaller inlets too. Mine has a bigger inlet" kinda proves that you are 1. You aren't very familiar with fp turbos and/or 2. You were dishonest about your claims and got caught.
I'm not going to discuss this any further nor address your baseless accusations of me attempting to pull something as I've wasted enough time trying to point out the reasons for my doubt and refund claim. You have addressed none of my points and have produced no documentation.
Re: partial refund of $200 to buy the correct lines
$200 doesn't make up the difference between a bb and jb turbo. You claim to have a receipt from FP, well where is it? I've asked for the original invoice from the very beginning as text messages will show. You still don't have anything to prove that this is a bb turbo other than your insistence.
I didn't send you pp payment as a gift exactly because I was afraid something like this might happen. (If you didn't know, sending payment as gift forfeits all buyer protection.)
The inline filter wasn't included. There's no reason I would lie about that. If you didn't know, the inline filters for jb and bb are also different. Anyway, the wrong lines are only auxiliary to the main point: I paid for a ball bearing turbo and you sent me a jb turbo. End of story until you can produce some sort of credible documentation proving such.
The fact that you claimed that it had the Xona CHRA in your own FS thread and per your second to last text message to me: "The JB turbos have smaller inlets too. Mine has a bigger inlet" kinda proves that you are 1. You aren't very familiar with fp turbos and/or 2. You were dishonest about your claims and got caught.
I'm not going to discuss this any further nor address your baseless accusations of me attempting to pull something as I've wasted enough time trying to point out the reasons for my doubt and refund claim. You have addressed none of my points and have produced no documentation.
$200 doesn't make up the difference between a bb and jb turbo. You claim to have a receipt from FP, well where is it? I've asked for the original invoice from the very beginning as text messages will show. You still don't have anything to prove that this is a bb turbo other than your insistence.
I didn't send you pp payment as a gift exactly because I was afraid something like this might happen. (If you didn't know, sending payment as gift forfeits all buyer protection.)
The inline filter wasn't included. There's no reason I would lie about that. If you didn't know, the inline filters for jb and bb are also different. Anyway, the wrong lines are only auxiliary to the main point: I paid for a ball bearing turbo and you sent me a jb turbo. End of story until you can produce some sort of credible documentation proving such.
The fact that you claimed that it had the Xona CHRA in your own FS thread and per your second to last text message to me: "The JB turbos have smaller inlets too. Mine has a bigger inlet" kinda proves that you are 1. You aren't very familiar with fp turbos and/or 2. You were dishonest about your claims and got caught.
I'm not going to discuss this any further nor address your baseless accusations of me attempting to pull something as I've wasted enough time trying to point out the reasons for my doubt and refund claim. You have addressed none of my points and have produced no documentation.
You are correct, this is done with. I am not offering a refund anymore. That's over and done with. I never claimed it had a XONA CHRA, someone else did. It is your job, as the buyer to know what you are buying. It is NOT my job. I don't know much about FP turbos but I do know what I bought. A brand new FP BB GREEN.
If you send the turbo back to me I WILL NOT accept the package. This is what PayPal told me to do, so this is what I am doing.
I have a receipt. You are not getting it now though. It's been uploaded to PayPal and they are aware of the situation. It states exactly what you received and exactly what you are selling. I uploaded screenshots of all the listings. Even the original and the edited version.
If you don't want to keep the turbo that is your choice. You are more then welcome to sell it. It's a brand new BB turbo and in perfect working order. You should be able to get $2500 if you wait for the right buyer.
turbo on left is ball bearing. turbo on right is plain bearing.
first two turbos are journal bearing, third turbo is ball bearing. the turbo you advertised was clearly NOT a BB turbo. BB has allen head plugs instead of standard freeze plugs. and these pictures arent the best angle but there is a filter fitting that screws into the oil feed port. plain bearing turbos dont have this fitting.
Last edited by 94AWDcoupe; Dec 22, 2014 at 12:01 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
Does this have their new "Xona" CHRA?
"Yes I'm pretty sure FP told me that when I ordered this. I can verify with them tomorrow, but I'm almost positive it has it."
Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
Does this have their new "Xona" CHRA?
"Yes I'm pretty sure FP told me that when I ordered this. I can verify with them tomorrow, but I'm almost positive it has it."
Paypal will be siding with the buyer on this one. If at anytime during negotiations the seller offers a refund (partial or full) the case will be closed in the buyers favor.
Last edited by 94AWDcoupe; Dec 22, 2014 at 12:09 AM.
What I strongly recommend you do as a show of good faith is make your proof of purchase from FP public to demonstrate your transparency in this matter. The original receipt should be scanned, emailed to the buyer, and posted right here with contact details redacted.
IF this turbo is not as described by FP, and you paid $3k+ for a JB turbo, then we have a different situation whereby we will look to FP for resolution.
IF this turbo is not as described by FP, and you paid $3k+ for a JB turbo, then we have a different situation whereby we will look to FP for resolution.
What I strongly recommend you do as a show of good faith is make your proof of purchase from FP public to demonstrate your transparency in this matter. The original receipt should be scanned, emailed to the buyer, and posted right here with contact details redacted.
IF this turbo is not as described by FP, and you paid $3k+ for a JB turbo, then we have a different situation whereby we will look to FP for resolution.
IF this turbo is not as described by FP, and you paid $3k+ for a JB turbo, then we have a different situation whereby we will look to FP for resolution.
@OP; Not sure if PayPal would actually read a forum thread, but you can always link to this thread in your PayPal dispute
Also,
Not a good way to handle things. Throwing a temper tantrum isn't how you solve issues like this.
Last edited by llDemonll; Dec 22, 2014 at 08:00 AM.
The turbo in question is a Journal Bearing turbocharger no doubt about it. Both the pictures in this thread and in the FS thread show a Journal Bearing unit. Also in the original FS thread the OP claims that we told him this was a Xona CHRA which is not correct this is not a Xona CHRA as they are a stainless steel bearing housing not cast.
To the seller: If you paid us directly I'm happy to look up your invoice and see what you paid and provide you with a copy. If you paid indirectly I'll be happy to check their invoice to see what they paid.
The the buyer: It's journal bearing, final answer and would require the off the filter housing oil line we sell.
- Michael
To the seller: If you paid us directly I'm happy to look up your invoice and see what you paid and provide you with a copy. If you paid indirectly I'll be happy to check their invoice to see what they paid.
The the buyer: It's journal bearing, final answer and would require the off the filter housing oil line we sell.
- Michael
I would say to reserve judgement as the seller may have been mislead as to what he was buying when he bought it. Everyone screws up it's how they handle it that determines their character.
For instance if by some huge mistake we charged him for a BB Upgrade and sent him a JB unit then I will send the current owner a BB CHRA to replace the JB unit that we sold. This will require that I be able to locate his work order in our system and verify the mistake but if we goofed we'll fix it.
- Michael
For instance if by some huge mistake we charged him for a BB Upgrade and sent him a JB unit then I will send the current owner a BB CHRA to replace the JB unit that we sold. This will require that I be able to locate his work order in our system and verify the mistake but if we goofed we'll fix it.
- Michael