kaj

iTrader: (60)

LOL. Entertaining, at the very least.

So my HTA 71 should hit 20psi at about 2000. What am I doing wrong???

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

And pretty much everyone who has ever tuned an Evo with a red has done it wrong, clearly.

Evo8cy

Listen *****, learn to behave, and treat people on here with respect. It is your right to believe whatever the **** you like, and my right to post my personal experiences as they are. The fp red setup was 5+ years ago and I do not keep logs saved just in case I bumped onto morons like you. Believe whatever you want but keep your little mouth and typing fingers working in a respectful way.









Marios

kaj

iTrader: (60)

Then we're all morons because none of us believe you did something that nobody else on the planet has ever done.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

LOL, taking it a bit too seriously.


BUT, you're making an outrageous claim, and have no data to back it up. No one else can get a red to spool that fast unless they're brake boosting in 4th gear. You saying that if someone can't do it means that can't tune is saying English racing didn't tune my car right, which is why I see 32psi almost 1500rpms later than your alleged setup did. And I can tell you the cams are not making that big of a difference.


As far as I'm concerned, you're posting bad info that some NooB is going to read, go buy an FP red, then be pissed when it doesn't spool at 2800 rpms.

kaj

iTrader: (60)

That's my problem here. I don't like people making irresponsible posts.

Laxman

iTrader: (5)

This is what I use too.

Evo8cy

I take tuning and what I post on forums very seriously, and stupidity of people who think that they know it all along with *****y behaviour gets me started, and as for the noob, when he gets the fp red he can pm on here and I will tell him exactly how to do what I have done, something that has happened many times on other forums, such as the MLR i.e.


As for you tuner and setup, if he is a knowledgable and experienced tuner he can easily do what I have posted, but everything has a trade-off and you must be willing to pay that. If you want the fastest spoolup of a turbo you will have to give up something up top. Modifying,using and setting up the right parts the right way achieves your goal and minimizes that trade-off to the best degree possible. Modifying the right parts the right way can achieve things others consider miracles.



And since Extreme Tuners have been mentioned on previous posts, all I have to say on the matter is the facilities exist, so do the parts and cars.












Marios

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

I still don't see how you made it work. I can brake boost my car and open the gate at 3k rpm in 4th, and the compressor starts surging. I've never logged how much boost it build because it's pointless to do so. The engine clearly cant consume that amount of air that low in the rpm's..

Evo8cy

The stock unported and unopened 2.0L engine is perfectly capable of absorbing the max amount of cfm at any given rpm point the fp red turbo can offer. It's not a matter of max cfm, but rather a matter of how fast air goes in and out of the engine, so timing falls into place. Change your timing cam combo and you will alleviate surge, but you will never make the turbo reach full boost of 30-32psi at 2800rpm using the gsc s2 camshafts.






Marios

Jaraxle

Yes you can make an fp red spool that fast. It just won't make any power. Turbo boost is actually a measure of restriction. Picture your intake valves opening only 3%. Boost would be sky high but no air would be getting into the cylinders. If you made boost that fast and early on the fp red, there must be some serious restriction in your air pump. aka: your engine. The best I could get from my 9 blade td05 turbine with 20g compressor is:



-Jaraxle

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Still no data logs..... Cams aren't going to change boost threshold 1500rpms. I had stock cams before the S2's and they didn't effect boost threshold.

Evo8cy

Cams most certainly affect boost threshold, and they will be of most use if you adjust them to do so. As for the stock camshafts if you had put adjustable pulleys on them and tried out different dialing combos and then tried the same combos with the S2s then you would notice the difference between the two sets, i,e if you had set the stock camshafts for spool and then used the same dialing on S2s. A camshaft with more aggressive features will make more power but it will sacrifice spool, you can't have both, or are you trying to re-arrange physics here lol?



There will be no logs, so you can forget about them.


As for not making power because you will make an fp red turbo at full boost by 2800 , wtf, why would your inlet valves open only 3%, do you know of any inlet camshaft that does that, that is one stupid arguement that I will not even get into. That graph proves nothing. The same restriction any stock 2.0L short block with a set of uprated camshafts would have.







Marios

Jaraxle

In hopes that some noob will read ALL the posts in this thread, I am going to have to nerd out here since you missed the point. It is quite possible to make 40psi at 2,000 RPM with an FR RED, BLACK, whatever for an instant, but not sustained. Because boost is only reflective of the inability to move air through an engine. So I am saying that I believe you can make that kind of BOOST at that rpm with an FP RED. But not without hitting surge (and therefore boost will fluctuate), and not while making any power. Every compressor map has a surge line. So over a decade ago I made a spreadsheet to plot flow for 2.0ltr engines based on pressure ratio using some simple inputs. I gave this spreadsheet out so people can calculate if they are exceeding the abilities of a turbo. I did you the favor of entering your 32psi reported boost @2800 rpm (first data point). The results are at the bottom.

SHOW ME ANY TURBO COMPRESSOR MAP IN EXISTENCE that can support a pressure ratio of 3.74 while flowing 20.5 lbs/min of air.

TAKE YOUR PIC: Garrett, Borg, MHI. Any compressor map you want.

Not going to happen.

The FP RED compressor can't do it. When you hit surge the air being forced into the engine stalls on the exit of the compressor and the speed of the shaft falls, then once it lowers the PR under the surge line it regains and happens over and over again rapidly. This is because the flow cannot occur at that pressure ratio. It is also very hard on the thrust bearings and will destroy your turbo. Compressor surge covers alleviate this by providing a path for the pressure to essentially "leak" back into the inlet. The result is no surging in the sense of rapid pressure spikes up/down, and thus saving the thrust bearings....but at the same time it is lowering the boost. So again, 32psi isn't going to happen at 2,800 RPM on a 2.0ltr engine.

Results:

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Thank you...