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the housings are cheap enough.
I've read about STI's spooling the S257SX-E's to 30psi by 4,200rpm with the 1.22 A/R housing and correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read, subbies are pretty handicapped when it comes to spool and power.
Ignorant people make my job hard, that's my new slogan. You have a very rough grasp on reality newbie.
If you knew you would know that all S200 turbos T4 hotsides actually are T3 cross sections with a T4 flange. When running a T4 twin scroll manifold you need to open up the S200 hotside to match. See pics. Why not just run the custom T3 hotside no porting required.
Mr peepers has an HX35 T3 twin scroll that makes 500hp @30psi and is at full boost by 3500 rpm on a 2.0 dsm, 264 cams. That's spooling faster than a single scroll .55 a/r BEP housing. HX35 has almost the same exact specs as the s257sx-e. So tell me it don't work.
Because the T3 volute becomes a restriction and is much harder to fabricate a manifold for, not to mention you lose exactly zero spool moving to a T4 volute with the right size turbine housing.
The HX35 turbine wheel is biased for spool, and flows like **** past 50lb/min. The HX is a decent turbo, but it doesn't hold a candle to the SXE. Ya'll can bench race dyno charts all you want.
Because the T3 volute becomes a restriction and is much harder to fabricate a manifold for, not to mention you lose exactly zero spool moving to a T4 volute with the right size turbine housing.
The HX35 turbine wheel is biased for spool, and flows like **** past 50lb/min. The HX is a decent turbo, but it doesn't hold a candle to the SXE. Ya'll can bench race dyno charts all you want.
You have a very rough grasp of how turbine housings work. Educate yourself and come back. T4 divided is the way to go.
Not for 450~500 hp they aren't, Mr. Peepers manifold is a 1.625" tube header, and every T3 twinscroll header I have seen uses 1.625" tubing (1.5" I.D.). Most T4 twin scroll manifolds use 1.5" sch10 pipe which is 1.7" I.D.
This is my point, if you goals are under 600hp a T3 twin scroll manifold will be better for spool. A T4 twin scroll manifold can support over +1100hp and is not optimal for a 500~600hp build.
You have a very rough grasp of how gas velocity affects turbo spool. Educate yourself before inserting you foot into your mouth.
Not for 450~500 hp they aren't, Mr. Peepers manifold is a 1.625" tube header, and every T3 twinscroll header I have seen uses 1.625" tubing (1.5" I.D.). Most T4 twin scroll manifolds use 1.5" sch10 pipe which is 1.7" I.D.
This is my point, if you goals are under 600hp a T3 twin scroll manifold will be better for spool. A T4 twin scroll manifold can support over +1100hp and is not optimal for a 500~600hp build.
You have a very rough grasp of how gas velocity affects turbo spool. Educate yourself before inserting you foot into your mouth.
LOL, you're talking about stuff that I've known for years. Mr. Peepers setup is not new, and I helped recreate a similar setup on an Evo 8 about 3 years ago. It performed admirably.
I've been part of about 20 exhaust manifold builds, all of which I saw hit the dyno afterwards. You can easily fabricate a T4 manifold with 1.25" Sch10 or whatever size piping you could want. I never said big runners help spool. The facts here are that a T4 divided manifold is just fine for a street car, and will spool the turbo just the same as a T3 divided provided that you sized your turbine housing correctly (which is much more important btw). They make a .83 A/R housing for the SXE now, which is quite small actually. I've seen the 1.00 and 1.15 on the S200SX series and they spool pretty fast. A personal friend of mine had a Galant VR-4 with a 2.3 and S259 reach full boost at 3800rpm in third with a 1.15 divided T4 housing...
Exhaust velocity/pulse is about 30% of the energy that spools the turbo, the rest being heat. Good try on the schooling, but your lesson didn't include any new information, so...
All this experience and no pics, graphs, or proof of any kind. Where are these manifolds? Dyno graphs? Do you work for Extreme Tuners?
Borg Warner made these housings with smaller T3 volutes for a reason. If you want to gain several hundred RPM in spool use a small tube header combined with the properly sized exhaust housing. If you want to bandaid fix use a T4 header with a smaller a/r.
So heat is 70% of why a turbo spools eh? Wrong! Heat creates expansion which in turn causes gases To move at higher velocities. Air movement through the turbine is the only reason a turbo works period.
You must know more than ford engineers because they are squeezing a 3.5l engine exhaust through two holes that are 1.15" diameter and getting 400hp out of that. Zero spool time.
Header tube size matters no matter how you twist it around in your favor. Small tube header vs. big tube header same a/r, the small tube will always outspool the big tube period. So your wrong there too.
I've seen the 1.00 and 1.15 on the S200SX series and they spool pretty fast. A personal friend of mine had a Galant VR-4 with a 2.3 and S259 reach full boost at 3800rpm in third with a 1.15 divided T4 housing...
The S259 is a 59mm billet inducer from Bullseye, if I'm not mistaken.
I would imagine the new tech of the SXE should match or best that in the same housing, hence why I'd run the 1.22 A/R T4 flanged housing and have the T3 inlet gasket matched like shown above.
What size pipe and design manifold, i.e., bottom or top mount, was on the VR4?
RWD4G63, may I PM you to discuss your experience with these turbos and DSM's?
Last edited by Strm Trpr; Sep 29, 2017 at 07:34 AM.
Reason: Defined the manifold question better.
2.0l ecotec I did some years back. Stock cams and heads. We had this sucker at 25psi around 3200 rpm third gear. Spooled almost as fast as the stock turbo! The header is a small tube short runner T3 twinscroll I made.
HX35 spooled so fast it's unbelievable. It made 460hp then the direct injection ran out of fuel. Very fun car to drive.
I highly doubt a larger tube header would have spooled that quickly m2c
2.0l ecotec i did some years back. Stock cams and heads. We had this sucker at 25psi around 3200 rpm third gear. Spooled almost as fast as the stock turbo! The header is a small tube short runner t3 twinscroll i made.
Hx35 spooled so fast it's unbelievable. It made 460hp then the direct injection ran out of fuel. Very fun car to drive.
I highly doubt a larger tube header would have spooled that quickly m2c
