SS FP RED for road race?
#31
To the OP, Have you run a few track days at big power? A 450-550whp Evo on the road course can be pretty demanding for the driver and the rest of the car.
Few things to consider. I'm a big fan of keeping it simple. The RS motors team ran a JB fp green IIRC on most of the boost for a while making 480whp and its undoubtedly going to spool up faster then an EFR magic tipped turbocharger blessed by Jesus. Their car was plenty fast at that level. The big factor was Ethanol keeping things cool. EGT's and coolant temp. Along with a road course friendly tune up. Nothing is going to live well being rattled.
A cast or stock manifold at moderate levels on Ethanol will have less chance of cracking then some tubular manifolds. Material, welding, weight, and fatigue are all a factor.
Back pressure is the devil in the end but your goals need to be considered. If you want a big power time attack car its going to live a better life with a large turbocharger with less backpressure. For the occasional track day at 400-450whp where the rest of the car will operate better at that level something like an MHI green/red would be fine.
For drag a MHI green or Red will make 500-600ishwhp and run pretty well.
Keeping a stock style manifold preserves the way the car sounds. Going to a tubular T3 or vband is going to change the sound of the car.
Of course with any combo its important to have proper oil pressure. The modded stock pan from New Zealand has plenty of great data on real tires to prove its a great upgrade unless you are going dry sump ( the real answer for track guys )
Few things to consider. I'm a big fan of keeping it simple. The RS motors team ran a JB fp green IIRC on most of the boost for a while making 480whp and its undoubtedly going to spool up faster then an EFR magic tipped turbocharger blessed by Jesus. Their car was plenty fast at that level. The big factor was Ethanol keeping things cool. EGT's and coolant temp. Along with a road course friendly tune up. Nothing is going to live well being rattled.
A cast or stock manifold at moderate levels on Ethanol will have less chance of cracking then some tubular manifolds. Material, welding, weight, and fatigue are all a factor.
Back pressure is the devil in the end but your goals need to be considered. If you want a big power time attack car its going to live a better life with a large turbocharger with less backpressure. For the occasional track day at 400-450whp where the rest of the car will operate better at that level something like an MHI green/red would be fine.
For drag a MHI green or Red will make 500-600ishwhp and run pretty well.
Keeping a stock style manifold preserves the way the car sounds. Going to a tubular T3 or vband is going to change the sound of the car.
Of course with any combo its important to have proper oil pressure. The modded stock pan from New Zealand has plenty of great data on real tires to prove its a great upgrade unless you are going dry sump ( the real answer for track guys )
#32
Or you could keep things simple and stick with a stock-frame, twin scroll turbo and make all the power you could use, fits without custom parts, and will last as long as you own the car (if used properly). Maybe not what you are wanting, but it's a viable option. If you like modding and fabbing stuff up for your car, then that's another story, of course LOL.
+1 on 25psi for track days. Mine peaks at 25psi and tapers to about 18psi or so. I never see a bit of knock and never worry about pushing anything too hard. I'm not gonna run 10s in the quarter, but it sure is fast around a road course.
I've run the same boost levels on an MHI Green (it still blew up after <2000 miles), 71HTA, and now my stock IX turbo.
P.S. I have yet to see tubular manifolds that don't eventually crack.
+1 on 25psi for track days. Mine peaks at 25psi and tapers to about 18psi or so. I never see a bit of knock and never worry about pushing anything too hard. I'm not gonna run 10s in the quarter, but it sure is fast around a road course.
I've run the same boost levels on an MHI Green (it still blew up after <2000 miles), 71HTA, and now my stock IX turbo.
P.S. I have yet to see tubular manifolds that don't eventually crack.
#33
To the OP, Have you run a few track days at big power? A 450-550whp Evo on the road course can be pretty demanding for the driver and the rest of the car.
Few things to consider. I'm a big fan of keeping it simple. The RS motors team ran a JB fp green IIRC on most of the boost for a while making 480whp and its undoubtedly going to spool up faster then an EFR magic tipped turbocharger blessed by Jesus. Their car was plenty fast at that level. The big factor was Ethanol keeping things cool. EGT's and coolant temp. Along with a road course friendly tune up. Nothing is going to live well being rattled.
A cast or stock manifold at moderate levels on Ethanol will have less chance of cracking then some tubular manifolds. Material, welding, weight, and fatigue are all a factor.
Back pressure is the devil in the end but your goals need to be considered. If you want a big power time attack car its going to live a better life with a large turbocharger with less backpressure. For the occasional track day at 400-450whp where the rest of the car will operate better at that level something like an MHI green/red would be fine.
For drag a MHI green or Red will make 500-600ishwhp and run pretty well.
Keeping a stock style manifold preserves the way the car sounds. Going to a tubular T3 or vband is going to change the sound of the car.
Of course with any combo its important to have proper oil pressure. The modded stock pan from New Zealand has plenty of great data on real tires to prove its a great upgrade unless you are going dry sump ( the real answer for track guys )
Few things to consider. I'm a big fan of keeping it simple. The RS motors team ran a JB fp green IIRC on most of the boost for a while making 480whp and its undoubtedly going to spool up faster then an EFR magic tipped turbocharger blessed by Jesus. Their car was plenty fast at that level. The big factor was Ethanol keeping things cool. EGT's and coolant temp. Along with a road course friendly tune up. Nothing is going to live well being rattled.
A cast or stock manifold at moderate levels on Ethanol will have less chance of cracking then some tubular manifolds. Material, welding, weight, and fatigue are all a factor.
Back pressure is the devil in the end but your goals need to be considered. If you want a big power time attack car its going to live a better life with a large turbocharger with less backpressure. For the occasional track day at 400-450whp where the rest of the car will operate better at that level something like an MHI green/red would be fine.
For drag a MHI green or Red will make 500-600ishwhp and run pretty well.
Keeping a stock style manifold preserves the way the car sounds. Going to a tubular T3 or vband is going to change the sound of the car.
Of course with any combo its important to have proper oil pressure. The modded stock pan from New Zealand has plenty of great data on real tires to prove its a great upgrade unless you are going dry sump ( the real answer for track guys )
I am going to go for the 2.2l since it has a better rod to stroke and will hopfully last a little longer if I keep the RPM down. I was considering the 2.3l to save money/time but in the end I think the extra wait while saving will be worth it.
Texas Motor Sport Ranch is within an hour or so of me and would like to start tearing it up once a month or so in the distant future. I need to build the car and get some seat time before paying for a membership and monthly dues. That way I make sure I am ready to take full advantage of it.
The more I have been looking at the turbo kits and read people's responses and setups, I think a Red will suit me well. A T4 TS setup seems sexy but not sure it is cost effective for my current goals. So, I am going to buy a new MHI housing to not have to worry about it being fatigued or having a cracked divider. I am going to pull my current T3 HTA 3582r have it inspected by FP then sell it and the cast R2 cams.
I was hoping to get in on a group buy for the RaceFab pan but it seems to have fizzled out. I will be contacting them anyway if the group buy does not go forward.
#34
Or you could keep things simple and stick with a stock-frame, twin scroll turbo and make all the power you could use, fits without custom parts, and will last as long as you own the car (if used properly). Maybe not what you are wanting, but it's a viable option. If you like modding and fabbing stuff up for your car, then that's another story, of course LOL.
+1 on 25psi for track days. Mine peaks at 25psi and tapers to about 18psi or so. I never see a bit of knock and never worry about pushing anything too hard. I'm not gonna run 10s in the quarter, but it sure is fast around a road course.
I've run the same boost levels on an MHI Green (it still blew up after <2000 miles), 71HTA, and now my stock IX turbo.
P.S. I have yet to see tubular manifolds that don't eventually crack.
+1 on 25psi for track days. Mine peaks at 25psi and tapers to about 18psi or so. I never see a bit of knock and never worry about pushing anything too hard. I'm not gonna run 10s in the quarter, but it sure is fast around a road course.
I've run the same boost levels on an MHI Green (it still blew up after <2000 miles), 71HTA, and now my stock IX turbo.
P.S. I have yet to see tubular manifolds that don't eventually crack.
I greatly appreciate everyone helping me and offering advice/insight.
I hope this thread helps others as well.
#35
So, I am going to buy a new MHI housing to not have to worry about it being fatigued or having a cracked divider. I am going to pull my current T3 HTA 3582r have it inspected by FP then sell it and the cast R2 cams.
I was hoping to get in on a group buy for the RaceFab pan but it seems to have fizzled out. I will be contacting them anyway if the group buy does not go forward.
I was hoping to get in on a group buy for the RaceFab pan but it seems to have fizzled out. I will be contacting them anyway if the group buy does not go forward.
There are a couple guys trying to get a third for one of the oil pans I use. I posted a thread about the oil pan, here on EvoM. Not sure it's what you are looking for, but it's local, viable option.
#36
You should be able to break even on the turbo stuff. I've never really looked into the price differences to build a 2.2 vs a 2.0 as I've never really thought a 2.0 was that lacking. Obviously a 2.2 is going to have plenty of advantages but if you're not looking to get super competitive would it be worth it to save a bit of money and stick with a more basic engine build?
More oil is definitely more better, after losing an engine from starvation this past season I've begun building my own pan similar to the other options out there. Consider a larger oil cooler as well, being in TX I'm sure you will have plenty of hot track days. If you don't already have an oil pressure gauge that would be a good idea too.
As said before 450+ whp on a road course is a handful, even at 400whp I'm still getting used to the car on track. Don't overlook brakes; braided lines, good fluid, high temp pads and decent rotors go a long way without breaking the bank.
More oil is definitely more better, after losing an engine from starvation this past season I've begun building my own pan similar to the other options out there. Consider a larger oil cooler as well, being in TX I'm sure you will have plenty of hot track days. If you don't already have an oil pressure gauge that would be a good idea too.
As said before 450+ whp on a road course is a handful, even at 400whp I'm still getting used to the car on track. Don't overlook brakes; braided lines, good fluid, high temp pads and decent rotors go a long way without breaking the bank.
#37
You should be able to break even on the turbo stuff. I've never really looked into the price differences to build a 2.2 vs a 2.0 as I've never really thought a 2.0 was that lacking. Obviously a 2.2 is going to have plenty of advantages but if you're not looking to get super competitive would it be worth it to save a bit of money and stick with a more basic engine build?
More oil is definitely more better, after losing an engine from starvation this past season I've begun building my own pan similar to the other options out there. Consider a larger oil cooler as well, being in TX I'm sure you will have plenty of hot track days. If you don't already have an oil pressure gauge that would be a good idea too.
As said before 450+ whp on a road course is a handful, even at 400whp I'm still getting used to the car on track. Don't overlook brakes; braided lines, good fluid, high temp pads and decent rotors go a long way without breaking the bank.
More oil is definitely more better, after losing an engine from starvation this past season I've begun building my own pan similar to the other options out there. Consider a larger oil cooler as well, being in TX I'm sure you will have plenty of hot track days. If you don't already have an oil pressure gauge that would be a good idea too.
As said before 450+ whp on a road course is a handful, even at 400whp I'm still getting used to the car on track. Don't overlook brakes; braided lines, good fluid, high temp pads and decent rotors go a long way without breaking the bank.
The oil cooler thing is a good point, though there are other problems that come with it: I now have around 7qts of oil in the car and a Setrab kit from MAP. During winter here (40-50* temps) and I can't get the oil temp above 140*. I had to make a cover for the cooler. Still taking a long time to heat up, though. LOL.
#38
You won't find a new MHI housing, they have been gone for a while now. On the bright side, FP will now machine housings with cracked volutes. That's huge for those of us with small stockpiles of them LOL. Also good because people that had mint housings were charging a ridiculous amount for them. They all crack there eventually, by the way, but it doesn't hurt performance. None of the dividers in any of my turbos have cracked, so I can't really comment on that (other than to say mine have all been fine LOL).
There are a couple guys trying to get a third for one of the oil pans I use. I posted a thread about the oil pan, here on EvoM. Not sure it's what you are looking for, but it's local, viable option.
There are a couple guys trying to get a third for one of the oil pans I use. I posted a thread about the oil pan, here on EvoM. Not sure it's what you are looking for, but it's local, viable option.
I will look into the thread you mentioned about the oil pan.
#39
You should be able to break even on the turbo stuff. I've never really looked into the price differences to build a 2.2 vs a 2.0 as I've never really thought a 2.0 was that lacking. Obviously a 2.2 is going to have plenty of advantages but if you're not looking to get super competitive would it be worth it to save a bit of money and stick with a more basic engine build?
More oil is definitely more better, after losing an engine from starvation this past season I've begun building my own pan similar to the other options out there. Consider a larger oil cooler as well, being in TX I'm sure you will have plenty of hot track days. If you don't already have an oil pressure gauge that would be a good idea too.
As said before 450+ whp on a road course is a handful, even at 400whp I'm still getting used to the car on track. Don't overlook brakes; braided lines, good fluid, high temp pads and decent rotors go a long way without breaking the bank.
More oil is definitely more better, after losing an engine from starvation this past season I've begun building my own pan similar to the other options out there. Consider a larger oil cooler as well, being in TX I'm sure you will have plenty of hot track days. If you don't already have an oil pressure gauge that would be a good idea too.
As said before 450+ whp on a road course is a handful, even at 400whp I'm still getting used to the car on track. Don't overlook brakes; braided lines, good fluid, high temp pads and decent rotors go a long way without breaking the bank.
An upgraded oil cooler is a must! We hit 100+ degrees for months at a time. The track will be blistering. Going to buy track pads, rotors and ss lines for sure before tracking it. This is also why I have to maintain AC.
The car will be detuned for track days until I can get a hang of the power and on kill mode for drag racing days lol.
#41
I found two places that supposedly still offer them. The housing is 750 though. I will see if I can find a good used one first but I am just so paranoid. My last RED grenaded and have never figured out why. Not sure if the turbine just gave way or if the housing did but it destroyed the divider and wheel in a spectacular fashion.
I will look into the thread you mentioned about the oil pan.
I will look into the thread you mentioned about the oil pan.
I was gonna do another HTA71 (my all-time favorite turbo EVER), but the stock IX is performing so well, I really see no reason to change it.
But! here's to hoping you have better luck with whichever you choose!
If you decide to go the MHI route, I have a housing I'm not using. Previous owner busted a bolt off where it mounts to the exh. mani, so needs to be drilled out. I've been too lazy to mess with it, so will let it for a reasonable price. I'd assume the volute has a crack in it. Just in case you don't wanna spend $750.
If your engine is built with looser tolerances, you may need heavier oil. In the end, I'd go with what your builder recommends.
#42
The oil cooler thing is a good point, though there are other problems that come with it: I now have around 7qts of oil in the car and a Setrab kit from MAP. During winter here (40-50* temps) and I can't get the oil temp above 140*. I had to make a cover for the cooler. Still taking a long time to heat up, though. LOL.
A 5-50 oil is pretty uncommon. How often you plan to change your oil will play an important role with an oil like that. Usually the larger the difference between the hot and cold viscosities, the faster the oil will shear. The reason for this is because oils like that have large amounts of additive packages in them to allow for such a dynamic viscosity change and those additives are the first thing to shear out of the oil. For this coming season I'll be running Amsoil dom 15-50 oil and probably changing every 3rd or 4th track day depending on how an analysis looks.
#43
Abacus & OP MT057
RS Motors is renowned for running EFR 7163 on 2.3 stroker.
And they built same for setup for Ken Twaits Ultimate Street Car Challenge.
This setup was current through start of 2017, 2.3 & 7163!
And that is what Ken used to get 2nd overall last year!
In 2017 RS Motors went BIG, 2.3 still but swapping 3076 & 3582 Turbo’s as required.
With Drenth sequential gearbox!
All out race cars.
Ronie can attest to the facts.
Ken Twaits also went big, Drenth sequential plus big turbo.
But 2nd overall is plenty good on stock 5 speed, 2.3 with 7163.
True street car, barely beaten by monsters with 700bhp.
RS Motors is renowned for running EFR 7163 on 2.3 stroker.
And they built same for setup for Ken Twaits Ultimate Street Car Challenge.
This setup was current through start of 2017, 2.3 & 7163!
And that is what Ken used to get 2nd overall last year!
In 2017 RS Motors went BIG, 2.3 still but swapping 3076 & 3582 Turbo’s as required.
With Drenth sequential gearbox!
All out race cars.
Ronie can attest to the facts.
Ken Twaits also went big, Drenth sequential plus big turbo.
But 2nd overall is plenty good on stock 5 speed, 2.3 with 7163.
True street car, barely beaten by monsters with 700bhp.
#44
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