Would the FP RED be capable of withstanding 20min road race sessions? I am looking for a good all around turbo. I like to drag race but also want to get into road racing.

I am not looking to win any competitions but want to have an all around fun car.

Thinking about running a 2.3l with cast R2 cams (already purchased) and an SS FP RED with a recirculated downpipe from STM. Would like to touch 600whp in kill mode on E85 for drag racing and a safe low 400 on pump for road race with decent transient response.

Have also been considering a Blouch 3.0xtr or 2.0xtr but worried about back pressure and heat for road racing. Not to mention the lack of an anti surge housing. My old MHI JB RED would surge between 28 and 31 pounds before they offered the new antisurge comp housings.

Opinions? Suggestions?

 

Avoid the 100mm crank for road course work. It don't survive very long. Go with a 94mm crank.

The single scroll housing won't have the response of the MHI housing, but with a stroker motor it should be ok, especially if you have Mivec. I would use S2 cams. Your power goals don't exactly suit the R2's.

 

Don't have mivec. I have been eyeballing the ER 2.2l for a long time but it is almost twice as some other short blocks. I guess it is worth waiting and building it right the first time.

Do you think that a MHI housing will survive road racing? I keep hearing to go T3 to reduce back pressure and I would like a recirculated setup that won't break the bank as well as make good power. I am about to pull my current T3 and sell it because of the open dump.

 

I'd say the MHI housing will happily do road racing 20 minute sessions, it is an OEM design after all and the amount of people who track their stock evo is insanely high.

 

Most Roadrace Evos are 2.3.
Check SCCA/NASA competitors: RoadRace Engineering, Mullerized, former Robispec builds, and RS Motors Roadrace/OneLap of America/Ultimate Street Car Challenge, Plus Ken Twaits winning Evo, all 2.3.

2.2 is Time Attack darling, 3 flying laps up to 9000rpm.

Manley & Eagle forged cranks showed some issues, while Billet Manley & K1 seems fine.

Forgings are better then Billet!
Stock OEM is quality forging: magnafluxed & balance one.
Twin scroll is must for Roadrace.

Stock frame is a bit challenging on roadcourse due to backpressure, but FP Red twin scroll mhi works well although I would consider GTX3076 & EFR7670 full frame.

 

You can buy parts and build a short block yourself. 94mm crank, 153mm rods, custom pistons for appropriate compression. You can order this stuff from ER.

And with the ER shirt block being expensive, you need to compare parts. They don't use shelf pistons, or rods. Nor do they use heavy/cheap Manley I beams that are go to's for a lot of other builders. And the $5800 one uses a $1350 billet crank. The Carrillo rods are $1150, and the custom pistons cost $205/hole. Racing parts just aren't cheap. But you're getting the best..


As for the MHI housing, keep boost reasonable and it'll be fine. I keep mine at around 24-25psi for track days.

 

do you guys check the scroll divider on some regular bassis?.. I have a feeling that it will crack on the MHI housings... esp on track....

 

Mine wasn't cracked the last time I sent the turbo to FP for a check up, after 20k hard miles and 4 track days. If it does eventually crack, oh well. I'll find another 10.5 housing, or move on to something else.

 

I have been eyeballing the race short block. It definitely has some amazing parts. I also respect Aaron and his level of experience and knowledge. I would be building my first block. Again though, not trying to take the podium, just trying to have fun so maybe it is time to jump in and learn.

I want to go with scroll but have a recirculated setup for passing emmision so that leaves me with a stock frame turbo it seems. Finding a good housing that is not unreasonably expensive has been a challenge. I will need to keep looking I guess.

 

I keep hearing and seeing that the 2.3l doesn't last long in road race applications. I will have to check out the team's you mentioned and do more research. The 7670 Nd gen 2 gtx look good but a recirculated twin scroll setup seems like a custom job these days and very heavy.

 

You'll be just fine on stock frame. I have a CBRD 3B turbo (essentially a Dom 2.0 XTR) and it's a fantastic turbo. Car makes 400/400 on E85 for the track at about 25psi and is an absolute blast, transient response is great.

If I were in your shoes I would probably have a BB MHI red at the top of the list. Unfortunately any BB stock frame turbo from any manufacturer is going to be pretty costly, all that I know of are above $2k (actually FP's BB stuff is on sale right now). The journal bearing stuff is considerably cheaper but your transient response will be considerable worse. You might be able to make up a bit for it with more displacement though. Same goes for the SS housing, you'll definitely lose transient response but more displacement will help.

 

Yeah I would go twin scroll stock housing turbo.

Also would prob go with a green or 71hta.

I have 5 Evos and one is a 2.3 thought about making it a road race car but thanks for the heads up on the 100mm oem crank. I have seen forged manley/ eagle cranks go bad but thought the oem crank would be nicer.

 

As data point, Brian Anderson championship winning 2 years in a row Muellerized Evo 8 2.3 did 2.5 or 3 years on same long block, no rebuilds.
That is a lot of SCCA racing, qualifying, practicing, and driving in general.

So I think its myth that 2.3 does not last.

I know few local San Francisco Bay Area competitors, former GST Motorsports customers that raced back in late 2000s and early 2010-2011, all used 2.3 and it lasted few years, just like any race motor at best.

I would say, there is more data for 2.3 lasting in competition in USA, than there is for 2.2, as I don't know anybody using 2.2 for roadracing - except in Time Attack.
There could be a hill climb Evo using 2.2, and not sure how to compare hill climb to California summer 105F 30 minute sprint race..probably the worst possible testing situation: hot, long-ish, and short enough to go all out from start to finish. Its a sprint, 30 minute sprint.

 

my IWG EFR setup is quite a bit lighter than stock manifold/stock frame turbo setup.. but people dont like IWG....

 

I don't mind the IWG but want a turbo larger than the 7163. This would push me toward a full race top mount setup. Not sure it would be lighter than a stock frame with the MHI housing. It would also be 6k or so