Afr acting crazy...any ideas welcome
Mar 30, 2018, 02:47 PM
#46
Account Disabled
No, you've just added to all the existing misinformation.
The pump runs when the key is in the start position and carries on running when the engine runs.
Hondas prime like you said, not Mitsubishis.
After you shut off the engine, pressure may start to drop slowly, this is normal for older vehicles, and not a big deal. Some vehicles will hold pressure for days even a week, again normal. If your pressure drops to zero relatively fast say within 1~2 minutes, then you might have a leaky injector.
Leaks are bad.
It means everything, it's a critical adjustment, no different from cam timing and ignition timing.
When the pressure is too high due to the FPR being maxed out, the pressure and therefore the AFR is totally dependent on voltage and voltage always varies with engine speed and electrical load.
The AFR in the box in your tuning tables, that varies with fuel pressure.
When the figures in the box don't agree with the numbers on the WB, it's due to the deviation in pressure from the actual to the ideal (3 bar) base pressure.
GO take a look at the modified fuel pump diagram posted above on the first page.
It's actually a potential death trap.
With key on , the pump will run at full voltage (stock, it won't)
It will run for ever.
So when you bounce off that tree and end up in a ditch with a broken fuel line, the pump carries on running until you turn off the key.
Unlike the stock setup where it automatically turns off when the engine stalls.
Last edited by RightSaid fred; Mar 30, 2018 at 03:05 PM.
Mar 30, 2018, 04:45 PM
#47
GO take a look at the modified fuel pump diagram posted above on the first page.
It's actually a potential death trap.
With key on , the pump will run at full voltage (stock, it won't)
It will run for ever.
So when you bounce off that tree and end up in a ditch with a broken fuel line, the pump carries on running until you turn off the key.
Unlike the stock setup where it automatically turns off when the engine stalls.
It's actually a potential death trap.
With key on , the pump will run at full voltage (stock, it won't)
It will run for ever.
So when you bounce off that tree and end up in a ditch with a broken fuel line, the pump carries on running until you turn off the key.
Unlike the stock setup where it automatically turns off when the engine stalls.
This doesn't matter anyway, the intent was to show the OP that by pulling the relay, he will force low power to fuel pump.
Last edited by 2006EvoIXer; Mar 31, 2018 at 12:14 AM.
Mar 30, 2018, 10:22 PM
#48
Evolved Member
No, you've just added to all the existing misinformation.
No it doesn't.
The pump runs when the key is in the start position and carries on running when the engine runs.
Hondas prime like you said, not Mitsubishis.
Pressure will and should hold for weeks.That ensures an immediate start up.If pressure drops, there's a leak.
Leaks are bad.
It means everything, it's a critical adjustment, no different from cam timing and ignition timing.
When the pressure is too high due to the FPR being maxed out, the pressure and therefore the AFR is totally dependent on voltage and voltage always varies with engine speed and electrical load.
The AFR in the box in your tuning tables, that varies with fuel pressure.
When the figures in the box don't agree with the numbers on the WB, it's due to the deviation in pressure from the actual to the ideal (3 bar) base pressure.
GO take a look at the modified fuel pump diagram posted above on the first page.
It's actually a potential death trap.
With key on , the pump will run at full voltage (stock, it won't)
It will run for ever.
So when you bounce off that tree and end up in a ditch with a broken fuel line, the pump carries on running until you turn off the key.
Unlike the stock setup where it automatically turns off when the engine stalls.
what a joke ^^^^^^ Lol
Mar 30, 2018, 10:51 PM
#49
Yeah I’m afraid of too much fuel too. It’s seeing 11.3 - 12 idle. Stinks of fuel. I’m here at the shop waiting on these guys. I’m going to start by replacing iac valve then tps sensor from an evo they’re building. Next injectors. If none of this fixes it I’m running this ***** into the local river or the bay. It’s either that or call an exorcist...or another tuner. Heh
Mar 31, 2018, 08:57 AM
#52
Nothing worked. I scavenged sensors from an evo they’re building and nothing. Tried iac valve, coolant temp sensor, wideband sensor, 1200 cc injectors with stock rail and fpr. I sent an email to Tom explaining the situation to see if he wants to take it on. Only thing I can think off is o2 feedback and fuel trims are not reading on evoscan. O2 voltage is reading but on the high side which means rich. This is a new denso o2 sensor. I’ve read on here people say oem is the only one that works and others say they had no problem with aftermarket. Idk I’m out of ideas other than another tuner.
Mar 31, 2018, 09:21 AM
#53
Evolved Member
Nothing worked. I scavenged sensors from an evo they’re building and nothing. Tried iac valve, coolant temp sensor, wideband sensor, 1200 cc injectors with stock rail and fpr. I sent an email to Tom explaining the situation to see if he wants to take it on. Only thing I can think off is o2 feedback and fuel trims are not reading on evoscan. O2 voltage is reading but on the high side which means rich. This is a new denso o2 sensor. I’ve read on here people say oem is the only one that works and others say they had no problem with aftermarket. Idk I’m out of ideas other than another tuner.
Mar 31, 2018, 09:42 AM
#54
Evolved Member
GO take a look at the modified fuel pump diagram posted above on the first page.
It's actually a potential death trap.
With key on , the pump will run at full voltage (stock, it won't)
It will run for ever.
So when you bounce off that tree and end up in a ditch with a broken fuel line, the pump carries on running until you turn off the key.
Unlike the stock setup where it automatically turns off when the engine stalls.
It's actually a potential death trap.
With key on , the pump will run at full voltage (stock, it won't)
It will run for ever.
So when you bounce off that tree and end up in a ditch with a broken fuel line, the pump carries on running until you turn off the key.
Unlike the stock setup where it automatically turns off when the engine stalls.
relay #3 is always on (power applied) during idle/no boost, when you get into heavy loads it turns off and the normally closed contacts bypass the resistor for full voltage. As long as your not making boosthigh loads the power to the pump goes through the original #1 & #2 failsafe relays. So unless your making boost when your in the ditch, you’ll be fine. The relay “on” in the Mitsubishi drawing is referring to the contacts not the coil. Relay is “on” when the coil is off.
I know I’ll be called a lyre so here’s a link to how it really works.
https://www.roadraceengineering.com/...elpumpinfo.htm
Last edited by 2winscroll; Mar 31, 2018 at 09:48 AM.
Mar 31, 2018, 09:50 AM
#55
Wrong ^^^^^^^ bad info.
relay #3 is always on (power applied) during idle/no boost, when you get into heavy loads it turns off and the normally closed contacts bypass the resistor for full voltage. As long as your not making boosthigh loads the power to the pump goes through the original #1 & #2 failsafe relays. So unless your making boost when your in the ditch, you’ll be fine. The relay “on” in the Mitsubishi drawing is referring to the contacts not the coil. Relay is “on” when the coil is off.
I know I’ll be called a lyre so here’s a link to how it really works.
https://www.roadraceengineering.com/...elpumpinfo.htm
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2winscroll (Mar 31, 2018)
Mar 31, 2018, 09:57 AM
#56
Nothing worked. I scavenged sensors from an evo they’re building and nothing. Tried iac valve, coolant temp sensor, wideband sensor, 1200 cc injectors with stock rail and fpr. I sent an email to Tom explaining the situation to see if he wants to take it on. Only thing I can think off is o2 feedback and fuel trims are not reading on evoscan. O2 voltage is reading but on the high side which means rich. This is a new denso o2 sensor. I’ve read on here people say oem is the only one that works and others say they had no problem with aftermarket. Idk I’m out of ideas other than another tuner.
Mar 31, 2018, 11:07 AM
#57
Fuel trims are not turned off. They just won’t appear. I haven’t messed with pump or anything of that sort. As far as I know the only fuel filter is inside the canister and can’t be replaced. I will still check for the hell of it. Also, when engine is cold it’ll drop right to 11.8 - 12 afr as soon as wideband sensor warms up.
how can I check for a clogged return line? Blow air through it or something?
how can I check for a clogged return line? Blow air through it or something?
Last edited by nor11384; Mar 31, 2018 at 11:24 AM.
Mar 31, 2018, 12:00 PM
#58
Left relay should be triggered by Relay #2. When doing this, the Relay #2 output wire to Relay #3 needs to be cut. The end that comes from Relay #2 goes to trigger/signal left relay to switch on. The other leg of wire that goes to Relay #3 is to be connected to output of added relay (left relay #87 leg) to prevent looping where power to pump bypasses CAS safety cutoff (Relay #2's job). When done correctly, this should prevent Fred's tree fire
Here's a picture of what I did. If I'm wrong somewhere, PM me and I can update instead of dragging this thrrad on a tangent.
Last edited by 2006EvoIXer; Mar 31, 2018 at 12:19 PM.
Mar 31, 2018, 12:10 PM
#59
Fuel trims are not turned off. They just won’t appear. I haven’t messed with pump or anything of that sort. As far as I know the only fuel filter is inside the canister and can’t be replaced. I will still check for the hell of it. Also, when engine is cold it’ll drop right to 11.8 - 12 afr as soon as wideband sensor warms up.
how can I check for a clogged return line? Blow air through it or something?
how can I check for a clogged return line? Blow air through it or something?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...-pressure.html
I don't think evo 8 filter has any problems since it is integrated at bottom of assembly. This can't be your problem. Back to drawing board. Sorry.
Last edited by 2006EvoIXer; Mar 31, 2018 at 12:20 PM.
Mar 31, 2018, 01:07 PM
#60
Evo 8 has an intergrated filter in the canister that is not serviceable. Theres also the filter on the pump or (sock) as we call it but thats barely a year old. Only thing i can think of is maybe return line being clogged but i figure that would make it rich at wot or something. Other than that ive been through everything. Most of the time you have to look at what you did last and that is cams. If i cant figure this out i may have to change back to the bc cams and see if tht fixes the issue. Then i would know it has to do with the cams. But according to 2winscroll it makes since that it goes rich. That still doesnt explain why nothing that is done in the map thats not scaling to bigger injectors will fix the issue. Ive never been this stuck with a car before. Im so dissapointed. I thought id be enjoying my car with my s2's by now. The only good news i have is that compression is good now. I appreciate all of you guys and trust me i take every suggestion into consideration. Please keep them coming guys. We will figure this out. This will help somebody in the future when i post the solution. As always its going to be the stupidest thing. Watch lol. I will disconnect both sides of return line and blow it with compressed air. If air flows freely i guess then we can rule that out. I was thinking something in the pump but that usually makes it run lean because of not enough fuel. We have the opposite issue. Hopefully thats it.