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Breakup at ~40psi - options?

 
Old Jul 20, 2018, 08:31 AM
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Breakup at ~40psi - options?

I recently upped the boost on my SS FP Red from 30psi to 40psi and I'm looking at about ~600whp. I'm experiencing ignition breakup semi regularly at peak boost and I'm wondering what my options are at this point.

I've replaced the coil boots and spark plug wires with brand new OEM and I'm using iridium plugs gapped to 019". This seems to be about the lower limit of what people recommend for pretty high boost. Should I attempt to reduce the gap further, or should I explore alternative ignition setups at this point?

I see aftermarket COP packages brought up a lot, but one thing I don't entirely understand is how these packages differ from the stock COP system. If I install a Spoolinup COP for example, how would this benefit me if the COP is still being fed by the same input off the wiring harness that the stock system uses? I know this is a pretty ignorant question, but I'm just trying to understand how this might help me before I start throwing money at it.

Thanks in advance for any input
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Old Jul 20, 2018, 09:20 AM
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The coils used in the COP kits are simply better. If you're getting break up with .019" gap, it's time for new OEM coils, or COP kit. I would opt for a COP kit. Your coils clearly are no longer up to the task.
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Old Jul 20, 2018, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by butte View Post
I recently upped the boost on my SS FP Red from 30psi to 40psi and I'm looking at about ~600whp. I'm experiencing ignition breakup semi regularly at peak boost and I'm wondering what my options are at this point.

I've replaced the coil boots and spark plug wires with brand new OEM and I'm using iridium plugs gapped to 019". This seems to be about the lower limit of what people recommend for pretty high boost. Should I attempt to reduce the gap further, or should I explore alternative ignition setups at this point?

I see aftermarket COP packages brought up a lot, but one thing I don't entirely understand is how these packages differ from the stock COP system. If I install a Spoolinup COP for example, how would this benefit me if the COP is still being fed by the same input off the wiring harness that the stock system uses? I know this is a pretty ignorant question, but I'm just trying to understand how this might help me before I start throwing money at it.

Thanks in advance for any input
Yup, breaking up at 019 is on low side.

It's a fair question. The evo uses a "wasted spark" ignition, so even if you installed a full COP ignition system such as a spoolin up, the ecu would still trigger two coils at the same time each time a plug is fired, due to the way they are wired to work with the oem harness. I say "full COP" because technically the evo's stock ignition uses two ignition coil's with plug wires for the other two plugs.

To answer your question though, a spoolin up COP is a good idea because some aftermarket coil packs such as the denso coils seem to have higher spark output than the oem units using the same wiring harness. There is also more current drawn when using four individual coil packs, which is why sometimes people blow their ignition fuse and have to switch it out for a higher amperage one soon after installing a COP. This extra current is used to fire a more powerful spark for each spark plug as they all have their own dedicated coil pack now instead of sharing a spark with another plug.
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butte (Jul 20, 2018)
Old Jul 20, 2018, 12:10 PM
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It will be interesting to see if switching to a standard SpoolinUp non-CDI COP will allow a larger gap than .019".

I wonder if anyone tried using 4 oem coils and grounding the coil boots.

Last edited by 2006EvoIXer; Jul 20, 2018 at 12:19 PM.
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Old Jul 20, 2018, 05:05 PM
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A COP system would definitely make a huge difference for you especially if you’re making close or over 600hp. I recommend the JDC cop ignition system over the spoolin’ up. The harness and mounting plate on the JDC are both way higher quality and the prices are more affordable. I have new or refurbished Denso coils in stock and ready to fix your issue. You can purchase from my website or I can send you an invoice. I hope that helps. Let me know if I can answer any more questions if you have any.

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Old Jul 23, 2018, 06:30 AM
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i run 018 gap with LS truck coils. they are extremely hot coils, enough that i have to regap my plugs every oil change because the center electrode erodes away. its a evo9 with those stupid iridium plugs. I built a new harness that powers them directly off the battery and added additional grounds to make sure they got all the power they need. the spoolinup cop is nice, but the ls coils were way cheaper and they just plain work. there are ls guys firing 2000hp alcohol motors with them.
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Old Jul 23, 2018, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JD Customs USA View Post
I recommend the JDC cop ignition system over the spoolin’ up. The harness and mounting plate on the JDC are both way higher quality and the prices are more affordable.
Nice to see a new vendor on here, welcome and thanks for supporting the community! Competition is great as it can promote further development on a product to refine it, enhance quality and performance and possibly drive down cost to us the consumer. That being said I've had a Spoolinup COP on my car since probably about 2010 and its performed great for me, granted my requirements are more modest than some of you on here running all the boost. But in my experience I was able to run a gap of .025 on a BPR7EIX plug on a little more than 30# on a BBK Full with no blowout issues.

Now, you mentioned that your product is way higher quality. Can you please expand on that as we would love to know what shortcomings you saw that you felt you've improved upon. Thanks!

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Old Jul 23, 2018, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by heel2toe View Post
Nice to see a new vendor on here, welcome and thanks for supporting the community! Competition is great as it can promote further development on a product to refine it, enhance quality and performance and possibly drive down cost to us the consumer. That being said I've had a Spoolinup COP on my car since probably about 2010 and its performed great for me, granted my requirements are more modest than some of you on here running all the boost. But in my experience I was able to run a gap of .025 on a BPR7EIX plug on a little more than 30# on a BBK Full with no blowout issues.

Now, you mentioned that your product is way higher quality. Can you please expand on that as we would love to know what shortcomings you saw that you felt you've improved upon. Thanks!
As far as performance, the Spoolin' Up and JDC kits will perform the same since they both use Denso coils and mil spec tefzel wire. My improvements have been made to the wire harness and mounting plate and I sell them at a more competitive price. I've seen a few different Spoolin kits in person at different performance shops and the wire harness isn't as well put together as the JDC. My harness is longer on each side so you don't have the connectors sitting out on the top of your valve cover. They make their connection on the sides of the valve cover for a cleaner look. I also use a different type of high heat wire sheath that's more appealing to most customers and the direction of my coils make the wire harness less noticeable tucked behind the front of the valve cover spark plug area. My carbon fiber mounting plates use a 3k twill weave in a 2x2 pattern with a higher gloss finish where Spoolin uses a 1x1 plain weave with a more dull finish (as far as I've seen). So in conclusion, the reason most people purchase my kits is because they get a product that performs the same as the competition with a better appearance at a lower price. I also stand firmly behind my products and I'm always willing to do whatever is needed to keep the customer happy.
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Old Jul 23, 2018, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JD Customs USA View Post
A COP system would definitely make a huge difference for you especially if you’re making close or over 600hp. I recommend the JDC cop ignition system over the spoolin’ up. The harness and mounting plate on the JDC are both way higher quality and the prices are more affordable. I have new or refurbished Denso coils in stock and ready to fix your issue. You can purchase from my website or I can send you an invoice. I hope that helps. Let me know if I can answer any more questions if you have any.
So, you alleged higher quality, but for the parts that matter you use the same stuff (coils, wire, and likely the connectors too). The rest is purely subjective- based on how it "looks". And the price difference is only $30.

Gotta love a vendor that has to basically talk down on another's product instead of just pointing out the merit's of theirs and leaving it at that.
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Old Jul 23, 2018, 01:17 PM
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To be fair, he did later post WHY he says the plate and harness are better and the reason people would buy his part (same performance, but better packaging). He never claimed performance or any other aspect was better.
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Old Jul 23, 2018, 01:32 PM
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He literally claimed "higher quality than spoolin up" in his first post, in case you missed the part I bolded. His other metrics are purely subjective. He's making up issues that don't exist and saying his is better because it looks different (which, again, is subjective).

Reading his first post was an instant turn off from even visiting his website. You never bash your competitors.
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Old Jul 23, 2018, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
So, you alleged higher quality, but for the parts that matter you use the same stuff (coils, wire, and likely the connectors too). The rest is purely subjective- based on how it "looks". And the price difference is only $30.

Gotta love a vendor that has to basically talk down on another's product instead of just pointing out the merit's of theirs and leaving it at that.
When someone asks for me to explain why I think my product is better I'm going to be honest. The reasons I gave aren't pulled out of thin air. They're a general consensus based off of years of selling these products. I've dealt with multiple performance shops that prefer my product over the competition and had tons of customers tell me they like mine better. Just because someone has been selling a product longer doesn't automatically make theirs superior. If you'd rather pay more money for a lower quality product that's up to you. I was simply answering a question that was asked with my honest opinion and reasoning to back it up. Last time I checked giving factual reasons to why one product is better than another isn't "talking down" on another product. I gave a comparison when asked. Take it how you want.
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Old Jul 23, 2018, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JD Customs USA View Post
When someone asks for me to explain why I think my product is better I'm going to be honest. The reasons I gave aren't pulled out of thin air. They're a general consensus based off of years of selling these products. I've dealt with multiple performance shops that prefer my product over the competition and had tons of customers tell me they like mine better. Just because someone has been selling a product longer doesn't automatically make theirs superior. If you'd rather pay more money for alower quality product that's up to you. I was simply answering a question that was asked with my honest opinion and reasoning to back it up. Last time I checked giving factual reasons to why one product is better than another isn't "talking down" on another product. I gave a comparison when asked. Take it how you want.
Here you go again, claiming it's lower quality. Please point me to an objective metric where you can say yours performs better. Oh, you can't because you both use the same coils, and the same wire, and some form of a mil spec wire sheath, and likely the same mfg connectors and pins crimped onto the wire with the same tool, and it plugs into the stock wiring harness and runs on the same wasted spark principle as every other non-cdi COP. The "type" of CF you use doesn't change the quality, and neither does the length of the harness.

You literally could've said the bolded part instead of comparing yours to a competitor who makes a great product and trying to say it sucks. That's just bad business. I'm not saying your COP kit sucks. I'm calling you out on your BS trying to claim it's actually better at doing it's job than the competition.
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Old Jul 23, 2018, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
Here you go again, claiming it's lower quality. Please point me to an objective metric where you can say yours performs better. Oh, you can't because you both use the same coils, and the same wire, and some form of a mil spec wire sheath, and likely the same mfg connectors and pins crimped onto the wire with the same tool, and it plugs into the stock wiring harness and runs on the same wasted spark principle as every other non-cdi COP. The "type" of CF you use doesn't change the quality, and neither does the length of the harness.

You literally could've said the bolded part instead of comparing yours to a competitor who makes a great product and trying to say it sucks. That's just bad business. I'm not saying your COP kit sucks. I'm calling you out on your BS trying to claim it's actually better at doing it's job than the competition.
Please point out where I said anything about mine performing better. I never claimed that. The only thing I said was that my systems have a higher quality CF mounting plate and wire harness. And yes, the quality of the mounting plate and design of the wire harness changes the quality of the full system. You're trying to tell me you'd buy a cheap CF ebay hood and argue that it's the same as a Seibon? The components that make up a product impact the total quality. In your case I guess I should start making a mounting plate from wood and spray paint it since you can't tell the difference in quality. Check out the difference in the pictures. Maybe it'll help, but I doubt it.

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Old Jul 23, 2018, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by JD Customs USA
Please point out where I said anything about mine performing better. I never claimed that. The only thing I said was that my systems have a higher quality CF mounting plate and wire harness. And yes, the quality of the mounting plate and design of the wire harness changes the quality of the full system. You're trying to tell me you'd buy a cheap CF ebay hood and argue that it's the same as a Seibon? The components that make up a product impact the total quality. In your case I guess I should start making a mounting plate from wood and spray paint it since you can't tell the difference in quality. Check out the difference in the pictures. Maybe it'll help, but I doubt it.
You just posted a picture of a thoroughly used a dirty COP vs a clean picture of yours. Keep digging yourself deeper in the hole man, this is funny.

Your perceived quality difference is subjective. Claim something has a lower level of quality implies that it won't perform as well or last as long. And how long it lasts is a performance metric.
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