Full Intercooler piping around $300
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: E-town
Originally Posted by marksae
Does the upper ic pipe work w/ the stock battery and air box in place?
Originally Posted by EVOnoir
the battery is in the stock location. im not sure about the stock air box. i dont have mine in anymore, but, it does seem to take a close route to the stock piping around that area. also, the bov flange is in the stock location, which leads me to believe they designed the piping for a factory stock car.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 90
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From: E-town
Originally Posted by Zeus
...that would be nice.
here's a how to for the lower pipe removal, I appologize in advance for not giving credit where it's due, I found this on the forums about a month ago but totally forgot from whom and where it came
1.Remove the undertray from the bottom of your Evo with a large tipped Phillips head.
2.Loosen all the stock hose clamps 12mm or Phillips head will do
3.Remove the overflow tank I believe it uses 12mm, lift up and sit it over if car is cold you can set it on the heat shield if not remove hoses and set aside. Below where the tank had set you will se one of the bolts holding the stock pipe. It if I remember right is a 14mm remove this bolt.
3.Next you will ned to remove the bolt that is next to the intercooler on the front bumper support. You can take the front bumper cover off but that will take some time. I chose to get under the car with a light and follow the bracket then use an opened wrench that also had the rachet type boxed end. Loosen it all the way then you notice it might be hard to get it out due to it having a metal collar attached to the screw. You will need to remove the stock intercooler end tank rubber coupler so you can get your hand in to remove the bolt. If you wiggle it enough it will fall off and down. If you cant get to it. You might have to go to plan B which is to remove the front bumper cover to get better access to it.
4. With the bolt out now remove the factory lower intercooler piping.
5.Replace the stock intercooler rubber end tank piece onto the new pipe you will need to re-use this piece.
6.With the shorter of the two new silicone couplers and the thread locking nut pipe clamp you will need to attach it to the stock turbo outlet piece. Do not tighten it all the way just enough to get it so it stays.(you want to wait till everything is one before tightning,you might need to make some adjustments)
7.Get the new shorter metal pipe from the kit and connect it to the new silicone coupler from the turbo outlet.Try to make it at the same angle as the stock piece. Then slip on the new clamp but dont tighten
8. Apply to larger of the two supplied silicone couplers to the new shorter pipe you just installed and slip both the clamps onto the pipe.
9.Install the new large pipe to the silicon coupler and the stock endtank.
10.Posistion everything so it clears the lower undertray and power steering line. Once you are sure everything is correct tighten all the clamps.
11.Then I would while still on the jack stands or ramps or lift. Start the car and check for any leaks if you dont have any go for a test ride and watch your boost gauge to make sure your ok.
12. Re-install your undertray.
13. Your done
1.Remove the undertray from the bottom of your Evo with a large tipped Phillips head.
2.Loosen all the stock hose clamps 12mm or Phillips head will do
3.Remove the overflow tank I believe it uses 12mm, lift up and sit it over if car is cold you can set it on the heat shield if not remove hoses and set aside. Below where the tank had set you will se one of the bolts holding the stock pipe. It if I remember right is a 14mm remove this bolt.
3.Next you will ned to remove the bolt that is next to the intercooler on the front bumper support. You can take the front bumper cover off but that will take some time. I chose to get under the car with a light and follow the bracket then use an opened wrench that also had the rachet type boxed end. Loosen it all the way then you notice it might be hard to get it out due to it having a metal collar attached to the screw. You will need to remove the stock intercooler end tank rubber coupler so you can get your hand in to remove the bolt. If you wiggle it enough it will fall off and down. If you cant get to it. You might have to go to plan B which is to remove the front bumper cover to get better access to it.
4. With the bolt out now remove the factory lower intercooler piping.
5.Replace the stock intercooler rubber end tank piece onto the new pipe you will need to re-use this piece.
6.With the shorter of the two new silicone couplers and the thread locking nut pipe clamp you will need to attach it to the stock turbo outlet piece. Do not tighten it all the way just enough to get it so it stays.(you want to wait till everything is one before tightning,you might need to make some adjustments)
7.Get the new shorter metal pipe from the kit and connect it to the new silicone coupler from the turbo outlet.Try to make it at the same angle as the stock piece. Then slip on the new clamp but dont tighten
8. Apply to larger of the two supplied silicone couplers to the new shorter pipe you just installed and slip both the clamps onto the pipe.
9.Install the new large pipe to the silicon coupler and the stock endtank.
10.Posistion everything so it clears the lower undertray and power steering line. Once you are sure everything is correct tighten all the clamps.
11.Then I would while still on the jack stands or ramps or lift. Start the car and check for any leaks if you dont have any go for a test ride and watch your boost gauge to make sure your ok.
12. Re-install your undertray.
13. Your done
Gruppe-S,
Actually what you said about the aluminum is not true. The ever heat a piece of aluminum compared to a piece of stainless when welding it? The aluminum will get hot throughout the entire length about twice as fast as the stainless.
Mild steel is the worst thing to use simply because of the rust it will produce over time inside, this eventually works its way into the engine.
Stainless is the best thing to use, polished. The polished surface reflecs the surrounding heat. This has been tested by many companies larger than we are and is even written in some turbocharging books.
The aluminum is lighter than most "steel" pipes, in the case of the stainless we use the weight savings is very minor.
The aluminum will also NOT hold a shine without constantly being re-polished, where stainless steel will hold an indefinite polish and won't tarnish from oil, fingerprints, gas etc.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Actually what you said about the aluminum is not true. The ever heat a piece of aluminum compared to a piece of stainless when welding it? The aluminum will get hot throughout the entire length about twice as fast as the stainless.
Mild steel is the worst thing to use simply because of the rust it will produce over time inside, this eventually works its way into the engine.
Stainless is the best thing to use, polished. The polished surface reflecs the surrounding heat. This has been tested by many companies larger than we are and is even written in some turbocharging books.
The aluminum is lighter than most "steel" pipes, in the case of the stainless we use the weight savings is very minor.
The aluminum will also NOT hold a shine without constantly being re-polished, where stainless steel will hold an indefinite polish and won't tarnish from oil, fingerprints, gas etc.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
hmm.. interesting.. but i am still not convinced fully..
Not trying to knock anyone's product here..but I tend to think aluminum is more suitable for IC pipes.. altho it heats up slightly faster than stainless steel but it also disspates heat faster than stainless steel.
I think HKS, GReddy/Trust, Ralliart, ARC, and many other large companies made their IC pipes in Aluminum for that good reason.
Not trying to knock anyone's product here..but I tend to think aluminum is more suitable for IC pipes.. altho it heats up slightly faster than stainless steel but it also disspates heat faster than stainless steel.
I think HKS, GReddy/Trust, Ralliart, ARC, and many other large companies made their IC pipes in Aluminum for that good reason.
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From: Work - New York, Alaska, Mexico or the Caribbean. -Home - Tx Hill Country
Originally Posted by MYEVOVIII
Mitsuorder JZ 97 SS 1500
When did my post post become hi-jacked now it is a platform for proturbo. Why not start a new thread about this?
When did my post post become hi-jacked now it is a platform for proturbo. Why not start a new thread about this?
If you want to advertise on EVOM, follow the rules like everyone else.
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Gruppe-S,
Actually what you said about the aluminum is not true. The ever heat a piece of aluminum compared to a piece of stainless when welding it? The aluminum will get hot throughout the entire length about twice as fast as the stainless.
Mild steel is the worst thing to use simply because of the rust it will produce over time inside, this eventually works its way into the engine.
Stainless is the best thing to use, polished. The polished surface reflecs the surrounding heat. This has been tested by many companies larger than we are and is even written in some turbocharging books.
The aluminum is lighter than most "steel" pipes, in the case of the stainless we use the weight savings is very minor.
The aluminum will also NOT hold a shine without constantly being re-polished, where stainless steel will hold an indefinite polish and won't tarnish from oil, fingerprints, gas etc.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Actually what you said about the aluminum is not true. The ever heat a piece of aluminum compared to a piece of stainless when welding it? The aluminum will get hot throughout the entire length about twice as fast as the stainless.
Mild steel is the worst thing to use simply because of the rust it will produce over time inside, this eventually works its way into the engine.
Stainless is the best thing to use, polished. The polished surface reflecs the surrounding heat. This has been tested by many companies larger than we are and is even written in some turbocharging books.
The aluminum is lighter than most "steel" pipes, in the case of the stainless we use the weight savings is very minor.
The aluminum will also NOT hold a shine without constantly being re-polished, where stainless steel will hold an indefinite polish and won't tarnish from oil, fingerprints, gas etc.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Not to mention the car will be moving with cold dense air passing and charge thru FMIC, IC pipes and then into turbo to produce power.. So isn't it more logical to use aluminum pipes since it will speed up the cool down proccess? I don't know.. you are the "Authority" of DSM, Care to elaborate? 
And AFAIK, majority of aftermarket FMIC manufacturers such as GReddy, ARC, HKS, and many others are actually using cast aluminum pipings for their IC kits. Simply because aluminum disspates heat faster as it is stated on their websites.
Just trying to learn something new everyday.
Thanks
Don't forget that stock is aluminum too! Polished SS does stay shiny a lot longer than aluminum though. I prefer aluminum just because it's lighter, harder to manufacter, and sounds better!
Polished SS does stay shiny a lot longer than aluminum though. I prefer aluminum just because it's lighter, harder to manufacter, and sounds better!
I'm also going to have to go with AL as a better choice for IC piping myself, but I am curious to learn more. David, can you point me to some of these books you've read? I'd like to see their info. My reasoning for choosing AL is fairly simple, and this is it...
You are correct in saying that aluminum heats up faster than SS, this is due to it's higher thermal conductivity and lower heat capacity than SS. It accepts heat faster than SS and can hold less, so it reaches a given temp faster. The total stored heat energy in the AL will be lower than the SS given the same temperature, and this, combined with the ALs ability to heat up and cool down faster, the AL pipes will also dissipate this heat faster than the SS pipes.
While I agree that the "reflectivity" of the polished SS will reduce it's heat absorbtion, this is a minor consideration in this application.
The reflectivity will only reduce heat transfer cause by radiant heat transfer, it will not directly effect convective or conductive transfer. In this application, convective (air passing over the surface) and conductive (direct contact with a heat source) are the primary methods of heat transfer. This is simply due to the fact that radiant heat transfer is governed by an equation that is based on a difference of the temperatures after they are raised to the 4th power.
P = e * (sigma) * A * (T^4 - Tc^4) where...
P = Radiated Energy
A = Radiating area
(sigma) = Stefan's Constant 5.6703 x 10^-8 Watts/m^2 K^4
e = emissivity ( from 0 -> 1 ; 1 is for a perfect emitter)
T = temperature of the radiator (in degrees K)
Tc = temperature of the surroundings (in degrees K)
Assuming that the entire engine compartment is a perfect emitter (it's not), it's total surface area is 3 square meters, and that the temperature difference between the entire engine compartment and the piping is 800 degrees K (I sure hope it isn't), you will only end up with 0.2 Watts of heat energy being transferred. That ain't much.
Convection and conduciton are directly related to the difference in temperatures, and therefore the greater the temp difference the greater the heat transfer. Convection is an issue since the air is always moving through the engine compartment, and a lot of that air is hot from passing through the radiator and over the hot engine. However, convection doesn't directly care how shiney a surface is, but it does care how smooth a surface is and how big a surface is. The smoother the surface, the less heat will be transfered through convection due to less turbulance at the surface of the object being heated. Since most things that are polished are smooth, they have low convective heat transfer properties, but that fact that the AL dulls over time, doesn't matter as long as the surface stays smooth.
Conduction has very high heat transfer properties, but it happens through direct contact between 2 solids, but the majority of the IC piping is just hanging in the engine compartment, this makes conduciton negligable.
That leaves Convection as the primary form of heating the pipes. You have convection occuring on the outside of the pipes with the hot engine compartment air, and convection on the inside of the pipes with the (hopefully cooler) charge air. The velocity of the air inside the pipes is higher than the velocity of the air outside the pipes, so the heat taken out of the pipes will happen faster than the heat can be put back in by the engine compartment. Furthermore, since AL has a lower heat capacity, this cooling will happen FASTER than it would with SS.
Combine all these things and you have from my perspective, why AL is a better choice. I would like to see the evidence of your books to compare my thoughts to though.
- Steve
You are correct in saying that aluminum heats up faster than SS, this is due to it's higher thermal conductivity and lower heat capacity than SS. It accepts heat faster than SS and can hold less, so it reaches a given temp faster. The total stored heat energy in the AL will be lower than the SS given the same temperature, and this, combined with the ALs ability to heat up and cool down faster, the AL pipes will also dissipate this heat faster than the SS pipes.
While I agree that the "reflectivity" of the polished SS will reduce it's heat absorbtion, this is a minor consideration in this application.
The reflectivity will only reduce heat transfer cause by radiant heat transfer, it will not directly effect convective or conductive transfer. In this application, convective (air passing over the surface) and conductive (direct contact with a heat source) are the primary methods of heat transfer. This is simply due to the fact that radiant heat transfer is governed by an equation that is based on a difference of the temperatures after they are raised to the 4th power.
P = e * (sigma) * A * (T^4 - Tc^4) where...
P = Radiated Energy
A = Radiating area
(sigma) = Stefan's Constant 5.6703 x 10^-8 Watts/m^2 K^4
e = emissivity ( from 0 -> 1 ; 1 is for a perfect emitter)
T = temperature of the radiator (in degrees K)
Tc = temperature of the surroundings (in degrees K)
Assuming that the entire engine compartment is a perfect emitter (it's not), it's total surface area is 3 square meters, and that the temperature difference between the entire engine compartment and the piping is 800 degrees K (I sure hope it isn't), you will only end up with 0.2 Watts of heat energy being transferred. That ain't much.
Convection and conduciton are directly related to the difference in temperatures, and therefore the greater the temp difference the greater the heat transfer. Convection is an issue since the air is always moving through the engine compartment, and a lot of that air is hot from passing through the radiator and over the hot engine. However, convection doesn't directly care how shiney a surface is, but it does care how smooth a surface is and how big a surface is. The smoother the surface, the less heat will be transfered through convection due to less turbulance at the surface of the object being heated. Since most things that are polished are smooth, they have low convective heat transfer properties, but that fact that the AL dulls over time, doesn't matter as long as the surface stays smooth.
Conduction has very high heat transfer properties, but it happens through direct contact between 2 solids, but the majority of the IC piping is just hanging in the engine compartment, this makes conduciton negligable.
That leaves Convection as the primary form of heating the pipes. You have convection occuring on the outside of the pipes with the hot engine compartment air, and convection on the inside of the pipes with the (hopefully cooler) charge air. The velocity of the air inside the pipes is higher than the velocity of the air outside the pipes, so the heat taken out of the pipes will happen faster than the heat can be put back in by the engine compartment. Furthermore, since AL has a lower heat capacity, this cooling will happen FASTER than it would with SS.
Combine all these things and you have from my perspective, why AL is a better choice. I would like to see the evidence of your books to compare my thoughts to though.
- Steve