as in one of the great all time classic movies: "blazing saddles"

HURMPF HURUMPF HARUMPF HARUMPF

 

Ok, an intelligent question. I'll entertain this. Think about this though, what if that extra weight was put in proper places on the car, hence, sprung weight, rather than unsprung. The weight might be put in as extra-strong roll bars, which will increase the weight, but also add handling capabilties to the car. There's more than just meants the numbers here. You have to think about a lot of different parts to something.

About the soft and spongy ride... the Evo will definitely not be that. There's already many warnings to give to customers about experiencing a much rougher ride.

 

Without the goodies. All i have to say is that our evo better have similar weight as the JDM. More weight for us meant more for them. Let me reitirate we dont' have the heavier 6-speed nor the heavy ACD/AYC combo. Ok our gas tank is larger. I'm sorry that your going to hear it over and over even when it's produced via motorweek, car and drive, motortrend, and etc..

I feel based on public demand and pressure from subaru will soon release ACD.

I also heard those units break down from friend from asia and it's probably true because if japan can have it why can't we???

One last concern is the notorious clutch.

 

I will just touch of the few things that you have mentioned above that got stuck in my eyes. Overall, really nice post Fireball and right on the money!!
Oh yes! It is! From the 1/4 mile point of view that is like 0.3 sec. I wish I had a comparison from the road racing, but I don't do that kind of things. In autoX, there are too many other variables that really affect your times. But, at last Nationals, I had a chance to drive an AWD Talon from the friend of mine after I broke hub and axle in my second run. Our specs are pretty close (same turbo, similar tires and suspension). The only big difference is that his car was slightly over 200 lb lighter then mine. I can tell you right now, that a huge difference was in the middle of the turn. It basically felt, like there were much less forces to bring the car out of the line! So, don't underestimate 300 lb! It is a lot of weight, once you start counting tenths and thousands...

Every one of us can!! Not in detailed, but we don't care about that anyway. If you see beefier this or beefier that, it is OK. But, what we all are going to see is how did they change the weight distribution for example. EVO 7 has a pretty bad one - 61:39 between the front and the rear. Simple four scale setup will tell us right away where all of that weight has gone to!

For some reason, you are stuck with this dragster thing and I don't really get it. Regardless of everything that we see in the specs right now. EVO will be one of the fastest 1/4 streetable car that you can find in the US. At the time, this crown probably belongs to the DSM (high 8s for the full AWD DSM as of now). Comparing the specs that we have right now with the DSMs, you see clearly that car is going to be even faster! Much stronger drivetrain (no more intermediate shaft in the trainy), more compact transfer case and stronger body will be more then enough to go even faster that the fastest DSMs.

The point on the weight is that drag racing requires only straight line acceleration of the car. And that is it! Boring if you ask me, but at the same time, so many people love that so there must be something there!

Most of the other types of racing require from the car to also stop, take a corners, and accelerate and decelerate successfully through them. Weight plays a big role in there too, and again, 300 lb is a considerable amount of weight to be tossed around. Just like in the slalom as you mentioned. I will ask you this, tough. If you would take an average car and go through the slalom field. If we would then ask you to do the same thing, but this time with an extra 300 lb in the sand bags, spread around any way you want, would you feel the difference? Do you think your time and/or average speed would still stay the same? I don't think so! So, again, don't underestimate 300 lb!

Here you are clearly off! The fact is that no matter what you do with the mechanical diffs, you can adjust them for one situation only and that is it. The problem is that slower cornering require different setup (read it as different amount of looseness in the rear end) to go through the turn fast, compared to the fast sweeper (where too loose will make you to really loose it). ACD mainly (AYC helps this too) takes care of this problem. It adjust it self according to the steering angle that car has and opens or locks it self accordingly. There is no mechanical replacement that make any sense that can do this!

Also, both ACD and AYC have very fast engagement and they are way superior to the any mechanical one. The big problem with the mechanical ones is that at the lower axle speeds, it takes longer for the plates to engage (an actual force is lower too), while at the higher speeds, this engagement is too fast and too strong. That is why AYC has a three different gears in there to maintain proper speed in all cases.

I could go on and on here, but there will be no point in that. As I said at the beginning, you are correct on most of the things that you wrote and I enjoyed reading it. These are just a few little notes that I had on the whole thing!

Thanks again for the common sense!!

Mr. AWD

 

Fireball - there are a lot of factors other than weight that affect handling and braking that haven't been discussed (particularly tires). However, no matter how you want to spin it, more weight is never a good thing. Anything done to reduce unsprung mass of the car would show up in the curb weight, as well. A lighter suspension does not add weight to the rest of the car. If you need anti-sway bars the size of tree trunks to compensate for a loss in roll stiffness, it's time to go back to the drawing board. Extra stiffness in the chassis is understandable, however I have not seen anything suggesting that the 7's chassis was by any means soft. Throwing extra metal at the problem would imply to me that doesn't care that much about the ultimate performance but only on generating profit from the Evolution's legacy.

Also, the idea of stripping it out applies to every other car out there, as well, and is not a valid argument to support your "the weight is no big deal" viewpoint.

Ultimately, even if the extra mass is in the "right" places, it doesn't change the fact that you have to stop those extra 300 lbs and turn those extra 300 lbs 10-20 times per lap on a track (not to mention accelerate them coming out of the turn). You've effectively lengthened the braking distance, increased the propensity to fade, lowered the cornering limits, and decreased the rate at which you can accelerate from these lowered limits. This means a lower overall level of performance, and last time I checked we're all into the Evolution for the performance - right?

 

Very nice post Billy!! I would like to add here that my fear is that it wasn't the metal that was added (so at least it would be even stiffer). I think they used that sound insulators from the GT-A and that is where the weight is coming from! As I said, just one of my fears until we see the real thing!

Have a

Mr. AWD

 

Mr. AWD, it's always a pleasure to read your posts, if often a little too technical (someone get me some Advil ).
I agree, 300lbs definately does have an effect on driving dynamics and handling. However, fireball also makes a valid point regarding unsprung weight.
If you're a hrdcore drag racer, you'll simply rip out the seat, the dash and all other redundant items...
I too would have liked to get a car with as few differences from the JDM EVO. THe reality is we still don't know exactly what we're getting and we sure as heck don't know what has up their sleeves in so far as offering AYC/ACD as options, or a racing version down the road. If we make it viable for they'll do it.

 

As well, few things I'd like to discuss further....

Again, I bring up weight placement. If you add weight in areas where it actually helps the car, like roll bars, frame supports and whatnot, it'll help the times. If you just add dead weight, or unsprung weight, sure, it'll hurt. Don't rule out all 300lbs as dead weight.

It's possible we'll find out, but I'd like to see a breakdown of what is different between the USDM and the JDM versions. That'll show a little more what's different.

I'm not going into this, because like I said, it's not a dragster. I'm only stuck on it, because that's what 90% of the people on here are talking about. Sure, there are people who obviously love drag racing, but this is not the car they should be looking at.

Ok, BINGO, you hit the point on the head. It is NOT 300lbs of DEAD WEIGHT! If you ask me to take that car, then add 300lbs of roll bars, heavier duty brakes, suspension componets, hell yes I would and I'd beat you in a race. Think about it?

True, you do have a point here. Electronically controlled ACD/AYC would be better, but my point was more to say that the driveline in the 6.5 was a world/race winning system that worked. You're getting a better version of that and not some junky Hyundai AWD system or something like that. People on here are making it sound like without ACD/AYC the car will get stuck in the rain.

Good points Mr. AWD..... but had some friendly comments as well.

 

Are you that Westsidebilly guy from www.s2000online.com ?



EVO VI was about 2950lbs.... that would be ideal for me.

 

Again, forgetting about all the factors. Sure, with more weight, you'll increase your braking distance, but what if some of that weight was beefier brakes to help with the extra weight, which negates the increased braking distance, but also you now can put beefier suspension in? Faster through the turns that would mean. It's all a magical formula somewhere... weight vs. performance.

 

Unfortunatly is probaby right. Most of us americans want sound insulator and sunroof. Look at my pool in the general forums.

Here was my priority list that was hoping to get
#1 FMIC and the same 4G63 Yes
#2 ACD "AYC would be optional" No
#3 Brembo Brakes Yes
#4 Under 3100 lbs No
#5 Strong 5-sp transmission Yes
#6 Recario Seating Yes
#7 Xenon lights Yes

All I have to say is that i'm glad to get the same engine and everything "except acd". I'm happy to hear we have almost everything. I just wish we had acd. Maybe if it comes out later in 2003 i'll take a $2000 hit to sell and will reserve an evo with one.

As for performance we'll find out if it handles better than the evo 7. I'm sure sport compact car would be the first to do so. Until then, i'm going to hold my complaints

 

I think if we just slap a "no fat chicks" bumper sticker on the evo8, we can shed unwanted weight in other ways

 

Good points everyone. I'm not a fan of the extra weight but I'm assuming it went into the U.S. spec bumpers. Rax made a joke about how that rear bumper looked like 280 lbs. well maybe not, but the front and rear probably do account for your 300 lbs. Not much can do about it either. Nor us,(short of taking the bumpers out and placing balsa wood in its place).

The weight is unfortunate, but it won't stop me from buying one. I had just hoped that maybe there would be more weight saving materials used elsewhere to keep the weight down - of course then your talking more money....

 

No, he's my evil twin.

 

Are the new bumpers made out of concrete?