April 05 Car and Driver
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 278
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From: RPV, CA
I finally received the April O5 issue. C&D were pretty harsh on the Evo in general. One was mentioned about how the rawness of the car translates into purity of performance. I think that's 100% why I purchased the car and sold my M3. I mean the M3 is nice, but I wanted something more pure in terms of handling and the ability to mod the car...
To be fair to Vishnu, I am sure Vishnu sent C&D the parts not knowing the history of the car. I mean it was in a freakin accident! Who knows what else had happened? The clutch wearing out could have totally been all those drivers abusing the car up to 40K. Notice it was AFTER the 40K term did they start to put on the aftermarket parts. I don't think you can blame the clutch on the Vishnu's parts...I think overall the C&D folks are not much experts or experienced in tuning or modding and they should have had better comm with Vishnu before they went ahead and published the article. It sucks on Vishnu's part and their marketing to get bad press like that but C&D is probably too stupid to know that.
I just think how kind they were to Hennessey when they had all their problems with the Vipers. They were unusually kind even though it was public knowledge that they were ripping off the customers. Must be some under the table stuff going on...
Brent
To be fair to Vishnu, I am sure Vishnu sent C&D the parts not knowing the history of the car. I mean it was in a freakin accident! Who knows what else had happened? The clutch wearing out could have totally been all those drivers abusing the car up to 40K. Notice it was AFTER the 40K term did they start to put on the aftermarket parts. I don't think you can blame the clutch on the Vishnu's parts...I think overall the C&D folks are not much experts or experienced in tuning or modding and they should have had better comm with Vishnu before they went ahead and published the article. It sucks on Vishnu's part and their marketing to get bad press like that but C&D is probably too stupid to know that.
I just think how kind they were to Hennessey when they had all their problems with the Vipers. They were unusually kind even though it was public knowledge that they were ripping off the customers. Must be some under the table stuff going on...
Brent
The apathy of the Vishnu crew towards the relative slamming of their parts in the largest automotive magazine in the world is something that I find very odd. Perhaps its best to let sleeping dogs lie, but why is it that C&D had so many mod associated issues (ie, detonation so bad the car limped, etc) when it seems that the vast majority of people on this board have absolutely no problems with their modded cars (mine included).
Originally Posted by BLiu
I just think how kind they were to Hennessey when they had all their problems with the Vipers. They were unusually kind even though it was public knowledge that they were ripping off the customers. Must be some under the table stuff going on...
Brent
Brent
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 67
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From: Chicago area
Folks,
They posted the spec's and told you that it was a 40k mile car and that it was a press car which they love to run hard. They took a kit like any other person can get and stuck it on as is implied can be done. They had someone knowledgeable do it.
And, the result was not that great. I suppose it can't be true? It must be a conspiracy?
C&D seem to LOVE the EVO. I've not read a review where they bash it at all. In fact, given the EVO's lack of niceites, which C&D get accused of loving more so, the EVO gets awesome praise for being what it is...a kickbutt, all out, performance car. C&D sure seem to appreciate that.
They had some problems with mods and they reported on them. They even said that they is the nature of "tuning". If you are into tuning and follow the world of tuning you KNOW this to be true. Modded cars require more car and more work. Usually we mod people accept this.
Why? Because that is the nature of tinkerers. We don't mind fixing little things outselves.
C&D is NOT a mod mag. They take a kit sold for the basic owner who may want a bit more performance and they put it on. That particular car had problems. Too bad, but if that is what happened then it happened. We as readers need to be able to understand that this can happen to certain cars and that it is NOT indicative of the whole line.
For example, just because one WRX did 0-60 in 5.4 seconds does not mean the whole line of WRX's can, but one did.
Take it for what it is and move one.
T
They posted the spec's and told you that it was a 40k mile car and that it was a press car which they love to run hard. They took a kit like any other person can get and stuck it on as is implied can be done. They had someone knowledgeable do it.
And, the result was not that great. I suppose it can't be true? It must be a conspiracy?
C&D seem to LOVE the EVO. I've not read a review where they bash it at all. In fact, given the EVO's lack of niceites, which C&D get accused of loving more so, the EVO gets awesome praise for being what it is...a kickbutt, all out, performance car. C&D sure seem to appreciate that.
They had some problems with mods and they reported on them. They even said that they is the nature of "tuning". If you are into tuning and follow the world of tuning you KNOW this to be true. Modded cars require more car and more work. Usually we mod people accept this.
Why? Because that is the nature of tinkerers. We don't mind fixing little things outselves.
C&D is NOT a mod mag. They take a kit sold for the basic owner who may want a bit more performance and they put it on. That particular car had problems. Too bad, but if that is what happened then it happened. We as readers need to be able to understand that this can happen to certain cars and that it is NOT indicative of the whole line.
For example, just because one WRX did 0-60 in 5.4 seconds does not mean the whole line of WRX's can, but one did.
Take it for what it is and move one.
T
Too little information available for me to make any relevant comments about C&D's experience with their press car. I do however have almost two years of experience with my own Vishnu tuned 2003 Evo to opine that I am thoroughly impressed with it. No detonation, limping home, sticky BOV, loose O2 sensors, fried clutch, or any other problems...ever... and I have no intentions of ever converting it back to stock!
I'll read their review and judge for myself whether they make a compelling case that the Vishnu Stage One Plus kit was unequivocally the cause of their problems however unlikely that seems.
I'll read their review and judge for myself whether they make a compelling case that the Vishnu Stage One Plus kit was unequivocally the cause of their problems however unlikely that seems.
Last edited by jfh; Mar 7, 2005 at 02:57 PM.
Evolved Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 697
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From: Nothern CA
When I was involved in R&D, the engineers would always ask me "how many out of how many exhibit this problem?" C&D tested one car and had a couple of problems (clutch not included). The writers simpley drove the car and reported their observations and offered thier opinions. Take the non-scientific test and consider that what is true in particualr may or may not be true in general. As suggested by several others in this thread, drawing conclusions from such a small sample is irrational.
well, i think the time is due to a worn out stock clutch.
I know those mag people dog the hell out of the clutch.
that and like any mod cars, people are going to have problems.
did they write anything about the difference between the stock vs mod cars? how they feel, how they spool differently and the track numbers, both drag and track?
I know those mag people dog the hell out of the clutch.
that and like any mod cars, people are going to have problems.
did they write anything about the difference between the stock vs mod cars? how they feel, how they spool differently and the track numbers, both drag and track?
Thanks for all the support guys. Like shiv said we knew of the "sticking throttle" we knew that another tuner suggested it was in the mapping (How you can tune a throttle to stick open by tuning on a cable throttle is giving us too much credit
) We suggested the stock clutch disengagement problem but were outsuggested it seems till the stocker was found slipping. To C&Ds credit they did slam Henessey in Csabas column with a formal sitdown Q&A as well as listing many of the faults and complaints with that company at that time. C&D is THE MAGAZINE they can make or destroy anyone at any time and have in the past. Not little guy tuners but whole model ranges from the big 3. We knew any of our ventures with them would not garner ANY favors. If we are going to be allowed to have performance parts critically scrutinized by an oem car mag, then we will have to take the critisism if they decide to give it.
) We suggested the stock clutch disengagement problem but were outsuggested it seems till the stocker was found slipping. To C&Ds credit they did slam Henessey in Csabas column with a formal sitdown Q&A as well as listing many of the faults and complaints with that company at that time. C&D is THE MAGAZINE they can make or destroy anyone at any time and have in the past. Not little guy tuners but whole model ranges from the big 3. We knew any of our ventures with them would not garner ANY favors. If we are going to be allowed to have performance parts critically scrutinized by an oem car mag, then we will have to take the critisism if they decide to give it.
i think that's what david was saying.
but he's responding in a responsive way, rather than saying, "it's just one magazine, lets' talk about other magazine that has a better review".
but he's responding in a responsive way, rather than saying, "it's just one magazine, lets' talk about other magazine that has a better review".
Originally Posted by GR-VIII
Folks,
They posted the spec's and told you that it was a 40k mile car and that it was a press car which they love to run hard. They took a kit like any other person can get and stuck it on as is implied can be done. They had someone knowledgeable do it.
And, the result was not that great. I suppose it can't be true? It must be a conspiracy?
C&D seem to LOVE the EVO. I've not read a review where they bash it at all. In fact, given the EVO's lack of niceites, which C&D get accused of loving more so, the EVO gets awesome praise for being what it is...a kickbutt, all out, performance car. C&D sure seem to appreciate that.
They had some problems with mods and they reported on them. They even said that they is the nature of "tuning". If you are into tuning and follow the world of tuning you KNOW this to be true. Modded cars require more car and more work. Usually we mod people accept this.
Why? Because that is the nature of tinkerers. We don't mind fixing little things outselves.
C&D is NOT a mod mag. They take a kit sold for the basic owner who may want a bit more performance and they put it on. That particular car had problems. Too bad, but if that is what happened then it happened. We as readers need to be able to understand that this can happen to certain cars and that it is NOT indicative of the whole line.
For example, just because one WRX did 0-60 in 5.4 seconds does not mean the whole line of WRX's can, but one did.
Take it for what it is and move one.
T
They posted the spec's and told you that it was a 40k mile car and that it was a press car which they love to run hard. They took a kit like any other person can get and stuck it on as is implied can be done. They had someone knowledgeable do it.
And, the result was not that great. I suppose it can't be true? It must be a conspiracy?
C&D seem to LOVE the EVO. I've not read a review where they bash it at all. In fact, given the EVO's lack of niceites, which C&D get accused of loving more so, the EVO gets awesome praise for being what it is...a kickbutt, all out, performance car. C&D sure seem to appreciate that.
They had some problems with mods and they reported on them. They even said that they is the nature of "tuning". If you are into tuning and follow the world of tuning you KNOW this to be true. Modded cars require more car and more work. Usually we mod people accept this.
Why? Because that is the nature of tinkerers. We don't mind fixing little things outselves.
C&D is NOT a mod mag. They take a kit sold for the basic owner who may want a bit more performance and they put it on. That particular car had problems. Too bad, but if that is what happened then it happened. We as readers need to be able to understand that this can happen to certain cars and that it is NOT indicative of the whole line.
For example, just because one WRX did 0-60 in 5.4 seconds does not mean the whole line of WRX's can, but one did.
Take it for what it is and move one.
T
Originally Posted by David@Vishnu
Thanks for all the support guys. Like shiv said we knew of the "sticking throttle" we knew that another tuner suggested it was in the mapping (How you can tune a throttle to stick open by tuning on a cable throttle is giving us too much credit ) We suggested the stock clutch disengagement problem but were outsuggested it seems till the stocker was found slipping. To C&Ds credit they did slam Henessey in Csabas column with a formal sitdown Q&A as well as listing many of the faults and complaints with that company at that time. C&D is THE MAGAZINE they can make or destroy anyone at any time and have in the past. Not little guy tuners but whole model ranges from the big 3. We knew any of our ventures with them would not garner ANY favors. If we are going to be allowed to have performance parts critically scrutinized by an oem car mag, then we will have to take the critisism if they decide to give it.
) We suggested the stock clutch disengagement problem but were outsuggested it seems till the stocker was found slipping. To C&Ds credit they did slam Henessey in Csabas column with a formal sitdown Q&A as well as listing many of the faults and complaints with that company at that time. C&D is THE MAGAZINE they can make or destroy anyone at any time and have in the past. Not little guy tuners but whole model ranges from the big 3. We knew any of our ventures with them would not garner ANY favors. If we are going to be allowed to have performance parts critically scrutinized by an oem car mag, then we will have to take the critisism if they decide to give it.Fair enough, I just found it a bit curious that they had so many issues when most people's experiences with Vishnu are flawless. Its too bad that they had the problems they did, but then again, I am sure the car got the CRAP beat out of it for 40k miles.