That was basically my point when asking about the dynos. All of the WRX owners seem to think the EVO is weak because of what this dyno shows. I am more interested in how a car relates to another on a track - whether it be a road course or a dragstrip. There is a lot more to the equation then 180hp on one guys dyno. IF there was a better way to test the cars (dyno-wise) I'm interested in seeing it, but since there doesn't seem to be then so what? The EVO is still a far better performer then a WRX. IF we take 271-227=44*75%=33hp then perhaps a 20hp difference is understandable considering these are three brand new vehicles. But if we look at it like we are supposed to, that cars are more then just dynos and math equations we will see that Mitsubishi has produced a superior automobile then the WRX and it is now up to Subaru to raise the bar again with the Sti. For all of you guys' posturing, you better hope and pray that the STi does indeed bring the flavor, because if it doesn't you will see how it feels to be on the other end of all this bull**** bickering that is going no where.

 

And we've been saying the whole time that people who see 180whp and attribute it to dynojet numbers, thinking the Evo would only run 14s, are idiots.

Quit fighting and let the guy tune his car. I bet we'll see mid 12 second very stock-like Evos really soon from Shiv (and other tuners) as well.

 

Just as soon as he figures out that putting a resistor on his Evo's MAP sensor (really an MDP sensor) doesn't really help him tune his fuel.

Ok, that was mean. But you have to know what you are doing, and Shiv's first post about the Evo dyno didn't really inspire confidence, if you know what I mean.

 

There is little doubt that the car stock will run mid 13s in stock form. Our WRXs running 200 wheel hp have been running low 13s and our WRXs running 250 wheel hp have been running mid to high 12s. And that's with taller gearing and far slower boost response.

We use a different dyno than most and one needs to adjust their frame of mind when comparing our wheel hp to 1/4 mile performance. I've tried to make this point clear from the start but appearantly some folks have a harder time understanding that than others.

As for 10 and 11 second drag cars, I have tuned a few of them under contract. I'm not at liberty to say but if you ask around, you'll probably find out. Unfortunately, they are mostly Hondas so I'm not too proud of it

As for our experience tuning DSMs, it's minimal. My experience and field of interest is in engine management primarily. If I see another DSM come to our dyno with an AFC and EBC, I'm going to puke

Cheers,
shiv

 

 

Why? Because the stock DSM ECU works so well, even at incredibly high power levels and that means that you can't sell them a TEC II? I guess that would make me sick, too, if I were trying to sell standalones.

DSM people use piggybacks because they work very well. If you can run 11s or 10s on a stock ECU, why upgrade?

Personally, though, I use DSMLink. www.dsmlink.com Forget having someone burn you a chip. Tune it yourself.

 

No that would require a professional charging $1000 bucks a head I mean jeez I’m only running 117 traps in a full weight car on the stock ecu and a safc.

 

I think the Evolution might be a little more complex than a AFC......


[redneck] don't give me that fancy lighted AFC, I want the antique one, WITH A KNOB!!! I'll stop using an AFC, WHEN YOU PRY IT OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HAND!!!!! [/redneck]

 

Where did you get this $1000 tuning fee idea from?
Most of the cost for the WRX upgrades was because it comes with hardware (exhaust components, ECU piggyback/replacement, pulleys, range colder plugs, etc).

Now lets see a US Spec Evo run 10s on a totally stock ECU. We'll probably be waiting a LONG TIME......... Read: Never.

 

You are right, the Evo is more complex than an AFC. The Evo is a car. An AFC is just a small microprocessor based tuning tool.

Have any of you ever actually used an AFC? The concepts it uses apply pretty much to any car with the right air metering type. All it does is give you a very flexible way to lower or raise the amount of air that the ECU sees entering the engine. Are there side-affects? Yes, but all the side-affects I saw were beneficial in terms of power delivery. I used one for a few seasons, and I was very successful with it.

I prefer to use DSMLink, now (which is still based on the stock ECU, just reprogrammed). But the AFC worked very well for me.

 

What about managing timing to complement the air:fuel changes when some of these newer cars and ECUs have the ability to infinitely adjust it on the fly? I don't think an S-AFC will extract as much performance (per HP capita) from the Evolution's new ECU as it did with the more simple and tuner friendly DSM ECU.

 

yes, unfortunately I had one on my Civic.

why did you make the switch to a more complicated ECU system, is your car making more power than with the AFC?

 

Uhhh, my car and every DSM has the ability to adjust timing on the fly. And the AFC works just fine.

What makes you think that the Evo's ECU is more advanced than the DSM ECU in ways that will make it difficult to tune?

People said the same things when the 2G DSMs came out. But Mitsubishi didn't really change a whole lot.

The basic air metering system of the Evo is the same. That is what gives DSMs so much flexibility.

 

Yep, Civic ECUs aren't built for forced induction. DSM ECUs are.

I switched because I wanted to be able to datalog knock. No doubt, DSMLink does offer me more flexibility over an AFC. It also allows me to adjust timing, which the AFC does not address (but other piggybacks do).

I ran 12.54 with a best mph of 110.8mph with my AFC. (Video: http://www.offsitens.com/vids/josh1254run.wmv ) No timing control at all.

I have since run a 12.52@112mph with DSMLink with the same exact setup. That was a bit of a freak pass, too.

Not really an appreciable difference.

 

Right, but even the 2G ECU is almost nine years old at this point.

Without popping a US Lancer ECU open or being the guinea pig to try an SAFC on your new $30,000 car, we cannot procure real world results just yet. Unfortunately, since neither of us have access to a US Evo ECU at this very minute, we can't say either way for sure. Maybe Mitsubishi will follow old trends, and this ECU will be a snap to manipulate. I'm sure not holding my breath, though. If you prove me wrong, I'll clap my hands for all the new Evo drivers out there.

I just really doubt that Shiv would sit on the data as long as he has if an SAFC would safely and repeatedly make reliable power to your car.

Dave Buschur recently tried to put a 16G on a WRX with factory injectors, pump, and ECU. It didn't blow up (that we know of), but it didn't run very well, either. Although the Evo's hardware is MUCH more akin to the DSMs, its not always safe to assume a new dog can do all the old dog's tricks.

Hunker down and wait a couple days, then we can stop speculating...