all efi cars work in the same way, na matter how advanced they get. you also assume that i know nothing about evos and only about galants. well, first, dsm's have things in common with galants, not the other way around, and second, i did not argue with you, i cemented what you said. the evo's having "2" maps is, while possibly true (ive never heard of this but i believe you) just an extension of what i said. the ecu will choose one of these maps and it will also tune the car to current conditions.


EDIT: i think you read my post but didnt really understand what i meant.
basically, every car will tune itself to whats going on. if an evo is knocking, its, by your idea, only going to choose the less aggressive map. but its also going to change how much and how fast it will advance timing on top of those 2 maps, amoung other things. thats the beauty of having such advanced ecu's. if the evo is knocking for some reason, then race gas is just going to enable it to run as good as it can in stock form, on the highest map and best timing curve. basically, the way the car was designed to work. does that make a bit more sense?

 

Im too lazy to read this whole damned thread but this is what I think. Running that fast on a bone stock car with very little gain in HP and not much, if any weight savings, I find it hard to believe. I dont need to see a timeslip nor would that change my opinion. Ill post up a timeslip of an 8 second pass and claim its from a stock Evo. Does that mean Im not lying because I found a pic of a timeslip?

The other thing about the race gas. The way ECU's work simply put, is they attempt to achieve the highest possible timing and AFR without detonation. They have many many maps that they will continue to advance to until it senses detonation, it will then stop and pull it back slightly. Thats the FIRST part of the race gas idea. The other part is about the actual fuel's themselves. Take the specific gravity of C-16 vs. pump 93 octane. They are not even close, therefore, the C-16 will burn MUCH richer, forcing the ECU to pull more and more fuel out to make the AFR's close. Granted, to take full effect of the fuel you would need to lean it out much more than the ECU will and raise the boost higher, etc... but you will see a gain in performance regardless. In fact, the stock ECU would accept high octane fuels MUCH better than a static tune (Utec) would because the stock ECU will constantly try to get the AFR's 'right' and timing 'right' where as some ECUs wont (Utec).

 

Not agreeing/disagreeing with anyone here but this is what i found.
My stock evo- 93 pump gas ran 13.4, with 100 pump gas, ran 13.1.
We did this with 2 other stock evos, and they were all faster on 100 pump. Now the 60fts were very close to the same, it was slightly colder when we did the runs with 100pump gas, (same night though), but the car held seemed to hold more power down the track.

 

100oct burns slower and if used with too little air it burns less complete.

i agree there are way too many sharks in the waters here. bring your A game every time you post.

 

Slips dont mean ****. I can pick up a dozen slips off the ground at my track with 11 and 10 second passes on them - doesnt mean I ran it.

Video doesnt mean much either - sure the car ran the numbers but you have no way of knowing its its stock.

Either you believe the guy or you dont. Personally I wont until other people get close to a 1.7 60' with the rev limiter.

 

Unless the 100 octane gas used in your car at the strip has the same specific gravity and stoich mixture as pump gas, you will need to re-tune your engine if you want to keep the same lambda. It's completely within the realm of possibilities that adding 100 octane changed your lambda and gave a bit of a performance enhancement over 93 octane. It can also go the other way. Whether the stoich value change is more or less valuable than resistance to knock, well, I'll let others debate that. Almost all race gas, depending on it's formulation, requires a retune to reap real benefits. Each will have a different specific gravity and will also produce a different stoich point. Stoich isn't always 14.7:1 for race gas. Another thing to think about is most a/f gauges use this number to convert lambda into an air to fuel ratio. It's imperative to know what the stoich value is for the fuel. If your a/f gauge allows for calibration to this number, use it. Even though none of us runs "stoich" under boost, it still affects the final tune and a/f numbers according to the fuel's properties. It's why EGT gauges are so critical; along with knock monitors and a/f gauges. Just some food for thought.

P.S.-Great run!

 

 

+1

 

that's incredible. I'm almost more impressed by the trap speed than the time, and with the 60' as well,....WOW!

 

 

+1

 

Dammit...I knew I should have waited for the evo 9...anyone wanna buy an 06 sti or better yet, trade an evo 9 for it???

 

Interesting, you sound you like have some technical background. However I'd like to know where you get this claim from. I am not an expert on the properties of gasoline but I don't think specific gravity is going to change more than a fraction of a percent between octanes, and the stoich is going to be modified by chemical composition for sure but again I don't know how much; do you have any references?

 

Not to be too rude, but if you have no knowledge in the field, how is it that you're able to question? Shouldn't you in fact do some research on your own first? A simple call to say, VP would probably answer all your questions. Stoich in fact can be quite different due to formulation. Any of the race gas "manufacturers" will provide you with specific gravity and stoich point for their "brew". No technical knowledge is needed. It's well known and documented information but info that's not readily known by the weekend warrior. Simply do a search on Google and you'll likely come up with the information you are looking for. I used to have a list of stoich values for different fuels, I'll see if I can dig it up and post for a reference to others on this forum. My background in the recent future has been with turbocharged rotaries. If you know a thing or two specifically about pressurized rotary engines, you'll understand my need to know stoich values for various fuels Off the top of my head, stoich for something like Alcohol is 9.6:1, just to give you an idea.

 

One note to clarify, a/f is tied to fuel type while lambda is not. If you remove your train of thought from a/f numbers and into lambda, you avoid this problem when tuning for different fuels. Simply tune to the same lambda. Here's some info about Shell race gas. They don't give stoich in the table unfortunately;
http://www.racegas.com/fuelspecs/default.asp
The oxygen content varies with the brew and this specifically will affect your a/f ratio.